Multimedia Toolkit 2/Multimedia Toolkit 2.iso/imagine/text/archive.04

Text File | 1993-03-12 | 177.7 KB | 4,666 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE IV
Mar 25 '91 - Apr 17 '91

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

Many thanks to Doug Dyer ([e-mail]) for the previous
versions of this archive

note: each message seperated by a '##'

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Subject: Surface Master
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 21:00:31 EST
From: [e-mail]

I was visting Rich Nollman and he showed me Surface Master,
Louis Markoya's attribute-demonstration displayer.

It's set up in a nice format- you click on "specular" and it shows
you what different values of specular and hardness values do. It shows
all of the major attributes, textures, and some pre-done materials.

It also has a bunch of attribute files that you can just load from the
attribute requester in Imagine. Textures have to be written down and
typed in, since Imagine won't just load them from a file like attributes.

I'm not sure it's worth $30, especially if you like mucking with
attributes yourself. It might be worth it to someone who wants a list
of pre-done attributes, though. It's well organized, and easy to use, and
has pretty good attributes ( I liked the metals, the woods were excellent,
though I thought the transparent materials needed something more.) Chrome
was way-cool.

Rich posted a much more detailed review with a glowing recommendation-
indeed, if you DON'T like playing with attributes, it's ideal for
viewing and choosing materials as well as seeing what each of the
parameters really varies on the final output.

It's a bit pricy for the list it gives you, though, and I've decided to
save the $30 in my piggy bank to help pay for my Colorburst.



Rick Rodriguez's Imagine video should be done in about 2 weeks (RSN).
It should be interesting. Want to give us a table of contents, Rick?
This is NOT the lame-O "IMAGINE: A Guided Tour".

-Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                           [e-mail]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: A590 and A300.... Ooops.
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 20:56:49 EST
From: [e-mail]

Oops, I don't know why I called the A520 encoder an A590. An A590 is
Commodore's hard drive interface to the A500. I correctly named the A520 later
in the post, but I misnamed it in the subject and first paragraph.
Sorry!

-Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                           [e-mail]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Neat Tricks!
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 18:32:48 EST
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdmin)

Well, I've been working with some Wavefront animators for some projects
we've been doing on video for a client.  We just moved into a new office
and we didn't have enough time to do this 3D animation project (rush job),
so we contracted out to get it done.  I watched the Wavefront animator and
picked up a neat trick for glints and starbursts on letters and the edges
of materials.  I thought it wouldn't be too difficult to do in Imagine so
I decided to try it.


What resulted is the following Starburst.obj file that I am including in
this message in uuencoded form. (I hope you all don't mind)

If you've ever seen logos and objects that fly around and then as they turn
and spin they sometimes give off a glint on a couple of edges or bevels.

The following object will provide you with the same kind of results!

I created the object in Imagine 1.0 but I couldn't get the object to be the
correct brightness as 1.0 didn't have bright objects so I shelved it until
I received 1.1 which was just today!  Now you can use this object in it's
full glory because Impulse finally put bright objects into the program.

I first made a new project and then went into the detail editor.  I added
an axis and picked draw lines mode and created an 8 point star with the
snap to grid mode locked.  This allowed my points to snap to the grid.

I then created an 8 pointed star with each of the points of the star
at about the same length.  Since the points on a starburst aren't that even
I then picked drag points and I pulled the top and bottom points out to be
longer than any of the others and then I pulled the left and right points
out to be just a little bit shorted and then the points in between those I
left at thier original size.  This resulted in something like the below
diagram looking at it from the front view:


                |
                |
                  \ | /
                ___\|/___
                   /|\
                  / | \
                |
                |


Of course this is like a stick figure of the starburst.  The lines in the
diagram are actually the center line of the stars points.


So, I now had my outline of the starburst.  So I needed faces.    I used the
Boolean feature in Imagine to create the faces.  I added a primitive plane
with 2 sections to the workspace and scaled it so it was a tad larger than
my starburst outline.  I then extruded the plane and then picked both and
cut out the starburst outline..and whala!  Faces!  I deleted all the added
garbage that you get when you do this.

So, now I had a reasonable starburst but it was still lacking alot of what
makes good starbursts work.  Since I only had Imagine 1.0 at the time, I
set the starburst to totally white and left it at that.  In 1.1, I have now
set it at totally white and toggled BRIGHT on in the Attributes requestor.

I then added a primitive disk to my scene using the default settings.  It
of course loaded in right in the middle of my starburst as it should.  I
scaled the Y axis down to about 1 (we don't need a fat starburst) and
scaled the X,Z axis so that the disk just reached the outside points of the
shortest starburst points.  I also moved it back about 1 unit in the Y
direction so that the disk wouldn't interfere with the starburst faces.

I then set it's color to white also and made it a bright object.  I also
added the radial texture to the disk.  The radial texture allows you to set
a begining radius and transition radius size to your radial texture which
can be set to different colors, reflective values or filter values.  For
this exercise I wanted the disk to be white in the center and then fade
away from the center to the outside edge so there was a foggy like look to
the outside edge.  So, I set my start radius and my transition radius.
I set the color to total white 255, 255, 255 and I set the FILTER setting
also to the highest value of 255, 255, 255.  This means that an object is
going to show it's color in the middle and then filter out to a mist on
the outside edges!

I then checked my Texture axis to make sure it was just on the front of the
disk from the right view and centered in the front view and said ok.

I then picked the starburst and the disk using the Shift Multi-select and
grouped the disk to the starburst and saved the object.  All done!

I rendered it and it looks marvelous.  Or course this is only the object.

Now what needs to be done is for the object to be used in an animation
correctly.

In most cases if you want a quick glint or starburst you will place your
starburst facing the camera.  You don't have to worry about lighting it as
it is a bright object and will stay it's color even without any light
shining on it.    So, you would normally place the starburst (or multiple
starbursts) where you want them to appear.  There are several methods of
bringing them into your scene at the appropriate time and I'm sure you can
figure that out.  Once you have your starburst set to appear where and when
you want them you will want to make sure they are scaled down to a very
small size.  You will bring your starburst into the scene very small and
have it scale up to the full size you want it to be in about 1/4 of a
second and have it scale back down at the same speed.  This will cause it
to "burst" into the scene.  To further enhance the illusion, you should
also rotate the starburst at least 45 degrees as it scales up.    A good,
quick starburst usually lasts about 1/2 second but it's up to you how long
you want it to be in your scene.

I hope you enjoy this starburst and without further ado, here it is...

begin 777 starburst.obj
M1D]230  "WQ41$1$3T)*(   "W!$15-#   &2$Y!344    24U120E)35   X
M         4TA!4     0  H  4$]320    P           !!6$E3X
M    )    !              0            $  %-)6D4 X
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M          O^(  (      (P  /_V@ (      ,C   #V:S@    !  %5X
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M____________________________________________________________X
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M_____________________________U),4U0   !T "8                 X
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end


-- Bob

InterNet: [e-mail]            | Raven Enterprises
    UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!bobl           | 25 Raven Avenue
  BitNet: bobl%bobsbox.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
  Home #: 908/560-7353                   | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: imagine archive #2 available ftp
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 23:38:59 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug Dyer)

(whew) The feb. 28 - mar. 25 archive is up at hubcap in the
pub/amiga/incoming/3D/IMAGINE/TEXT directory called imagine.archive.2

(not quite a month but the messages were comming in to fast!)

Each message is separated by a '##' for an easy string search to jump around.
All messages were included except "add","remove" me posts.


I have been asked about uploading to hubcap concerning disk space.  There
is no problem there, but if crowding ever starts Ill delete anything but the
imagine directory :)


If it seems that some messages are out of order, sorry.  I saved messages
from the mailer from recent to old so threads between my dumping the
mailbox will be chronologically reversed.

PPS. just sent for v1.1  hope its as good as it sounds.

Bye!

--
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
                      flames to comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Doug Dyer [e-mail]                       (2B)|!(2B) -> ?

##

Subject: An Introduction to the List
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 23:44:57 EST
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

rutgers!athena.mit.edu!spworley writes:

> How do you send something to the list? It's pretty easy. You just send
> mail to "[e-mail]" as the recipient's name. Your letter
> is copied 171 times and mailed to everyone on the list. That's it! If
> you want to deal with administrivia like adding/subtracting a name on
> the list, mail me personally, [e-mail], and I'll try to
> help out.
>
> One danger- if you REPLy to a mail message from the list, you are
> probably NOT sending a copy to the list, but only to the original
> owner. To post a  followup to the list, either compose a new letter,
> or remember to change the "To:" line in the reply to
> "[e-mail]", unless of course you WANT a private reply.
>
> One last note- this list and its messages are completely
> distributable. A couple of BBSes carry our discussion, and a few "members"
> of the list are actually mailing lists in their own right. Feel free to
> copy or distribute the info on the list, as long as you 1) credit the
> authors of individual messages (keeping their names is all you need) and
> mentioning the source, the USENET Imagine Mailing List,
> [e-mail]. That's it!

I would like to point out for anyone in the NJ dialing area or people
with PC Pursuit or Starlink.  My BBS which is accessable from either
of the previously mentioned services takes the mail-list and posts it
to a forum where anyone on the system can read the list and reply all
automatically.  No user intervention or calistenics are required.
All one has to do is "join imagine" and they are all set to newscan
the new messages and follow-up to articles.  All posts are
automatically forwarded to [e-mail].

I will also be maintaining a library of the Imagine Objects as well
as other generic OFF objects in the files section of the system.  If
you find any of this to your liking, then give a dial.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Video genlocks and DCTV (was Re: A590 and A3000s)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 91 09:18:48 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I wouldn't doubt the A520 would start
> to lose using an S-VHS recorder or single-frame video-disk. What would
> professionals use? A SuperGen 2000, which has S-video outs?

The SuperGen 2000 is probably the best Amiga genlock available for the
money and is used extensively by video professionals who own Amigas.

> DCTV question- Mark Thompson said ranbowing during sharp color changes was
> a problem, and could be solved at the expense of fuzzyness by setting a
> filter. Question: can you implement this filter for just one area of the
> screen? That would be very convienient.

There are two places where DCTV's filter function can be utilized. The first
is a global image filter that is used in IFFtoDCTV for batch image conversion.
It also exists as a painting mode within the paint program so that anything
you can do with the brush, you can do with the filter (very useful for
touching up video "hot" spots). Unfortunately, the batch conversion filter
is only a switch and allows no control over the degree or area of filtering.
When the software update is available, the ARexx port will allow a work-around
for this.

*Special note to Toaster owners who purchase DCTV*  DO NOT use the iffparse
library that is supplied with DCTV!!! It will cause the Toaster software
(Modeler in particular) to CRASH! As far as I can tell so far, the iffparse
library that comes with the Toaster works just fine with DCTV.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%       `       '                Mark Thompson                          %
%  --==* RADIANT *==--           [e-mail]                 %
%       ' Image `                ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark       %
%      Productions               [phone]  [phone]           %
%                                                                       %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: DKBTrace?
Date: 26 Mar 91 12:42:22 EST
From: [e-mail]

Anyone out there use DKBTrace just for fun? I don't have Imagine, and
probably won't buy it [no flames, please, I can't see the use in buying it
just so I can play around with it like I do DKBTrace] but like to make
little 'neat' pictures using DKBTrace.

Does anyone on the list just play around with DKBTrace like I do? If so,
anyone got any hints on making those interesting little pics you just can't
seem to get enough of?


[e-mail]
        or
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Threads
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 91 11:35:06 PST
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis ~)

>>>>> On Mon, 25 Mar 91 20:58:40 EST, [e-mail] said:

Steve> Anyone have any good ideas on how to make threads, like on a
Steve> bolt?

    Sure.  Piece of cake.  In the last twenty minutes, I cooked up a
little Perl script that creates a threaded object whose parameters I can
control.  I used, of course, WriteTDDD.  In fact, here is what I typed:

thread 60 0.5 10 4 5 | WriteTDDD > thread.tddd

Here is the Usage information:

Usage: thread NUMPTS SPACING HEIGHT IN_RADIUS OUT_RADIUS
where NUMPTS is the number of point in a single revolution
      SPACING is the number of units between threads
      HEIGHT is the total height of the bolt.
      IN_RADIUS is the radius of the inner thread.
      OUT_RADIUS is the radius of the outer thread.

    Does this sound like something you would want, Steve?

    Unfortunately, I don't have my Amiga with me right here, so I
can not see if it looks like what you want.  So I'll send you the
object, Steve, and let you take a look at it.
    Nevertheless, here is the Perl script that I used to create it.
If anybody doesn't know what TTDDD is, you can grab it off of
ab20.larc.nasa.gov and it will give you more information.  It stands for
"Textual Three Dimension Data Description", and was written by me.

    Have fun.
                            -- Glenn Lewis

[e-mail] | These are my own opinions... not Intel's

********************************************************************************

#!/usr/local/mcfg/bin/perl
if ($#ARGV < 4) {
    print STDERR "Usage: $0 NUMPTS SPACING HEIGHT IN_RADIUS OUT_RADIUS\n";
    print STDERR "where NUMPTS is the number of point in a single revolution\n";
    print STDERR "      SPACING is the number of units between threads\n";
    print STDERR "      HEIGHT is the total height of the bolt.\n";
    print STDERR "      IN_RADIUS is the radius of the inner thread.\n";
    print STDERR "      OUT_RADIUS is the radius of the outer thread.\n";
    exit(0);
}
print
"/* thread.ttddd - Written by Glenn M. Lewis - 3/26/91\
 * Steve Worley had asked on the Imagine mailing list how to create\
 * a thread-like object for Imagine.  Instead of saying 'how about\
 * using TTDDD to create it, I thought... I'll see if I can create\
 * a thread using TTDDD.  Since my Amiga isn't handy, I'll let somebody\
 * else pump this through WriteTDDD to get an object and check it out.\
 */\
\
OBJ Begin\
DESC Begin\
  NAME \"Thread\"\
  SHAP Shape 2\
  SHAP Lamp 0\
";
# OK.  Start calculating the position of the points, edges, and faces...
$NUMPTS     = $ARGV[0];
$SPACING    = $ARGV[1];
$HEIGHT     = $ARGV[2];
$IN_RADIUS  = $ARGV[3];
$OUT_RADIUS = $ARGV[4];
$PI=3.14159265;
#
# Calculate the points needed...
#
$height = 0.0;
$heightstep = $SPACING/$NUMPTS;
$theta = 0.0;
$thetastep = $PI/$NUMPTS;
$count = 0;
while ($height < $HEIGHT) {
    $outer_x[$count] = sin($theta) * $OUT_RADIUS;
    $outer_y[$count] = cos($theta) * $OUT_RADIUS;
    $outer_z[$count] = $height;
    $theta += $thetastep;
    $inner_x[$count] = sin($theta) * $IN_RADIUS;
    $inner_y[$count] = cos($theta) * $IN_RADIUS;
    $inner_z[$count] = $height;
    $theta += $thetastep;
    $count++;
    $height += $heightstep;
}
#
# Start writing the TTDDD data...
#
# First, list the points...
#
printf("  PNTS Pcount %d\n", $count*2);
$edge = 0;
for ($i=0; $i<$count; $i++) {
    printf("    PNTS Point %d %g %g %g\n", $i*2,
        $outer_x[$i], $outer_y[$i], $outer_z[$i]);
    printf("    PNTS Point %d %g %g %g\n", $i*2+1,
        $inner_x[$i], $inner_y[$i], $inner_z[$i]);
    # Count up the number of edges we need
    if ($i<$count-1) {
        $edge += 3;                         # O[i]..O[i+1]..I[i]..O[i]
        if ($i>=$NUMPTS) { $edge += 3; }    # I[i]..I[i+1]..O[i-N]..I[i]
        if ($i+1<$count) { $edge += 3; }    # O[i+1]..I[i+1]..I[i]..O[i+1]
        if ($i>=$NUMPTS) { $edge += 3; }    # I[i+1]..O[i+1-N]..O[i-N]..I[i+1]
    }
}
#
# Second, list the edges...
#
printf("\n  EDGE ECount %d\n", $edge);
$e=0;
$face = 0;
for ($i=0; $i<$count-1; $i++) {
    printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, $i*2, ($i+1)*2);
    printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, ($i+1)*2, $i*2+1);
    printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, $i*2+1, $i*2);
    $face++;
    if ($i>=$NUMPTS) {
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, $i*2+1, ($i+1)*2+1);
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, ($i+1)*2+1, ($i-$NUMPTS)*2);
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, ($i-$NUMPTS)*2, $i*2+1);
        $face++;
    }
    if ($i+1<$count) {
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, ($i+1)*2, ($i+1)*2+1);
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, ($i+1)*2+1, $i*2+1);
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, $i*2+1, ($i+1)*2);
        $face++;
    }
    if ($i>=$NUMPTS) {
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, ($i+1)*2+1, ($i+1-$NUMPTS)*2);
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n",$e++,($i+1-$NUMPTS)*2,($i-$NUMPTS)*2);
        printf("    EDGE Edge %d %d %d\n", $e++, ($i-$NUMPTS)*2, ($i+1)*2+1);
        $face++;
    }
}
#
# Third, list the faces...
#
printf("\n  FACE Tcount %d\n", $face);
$e=0;
$f=0;
for ($i=0; $i<$count-1; $i++) {
    printf("    FACE Connect %d %d %d %d\n", $f++, $e++, $e++, $e++);
    if ($i>=$NUMPTS) {
        printf("    FACE Connect %d %d %d %d\n", $f++, $e++, $e++, $e++);
    }
    if ($i+1<$count) {
        printf("    FACE Connect %d %d %d %d\n", $f++, $e++, $e++, $e++);
    }
    if ($i>=$NUMPTS) {
        printf("    FACE Connect %d %d %d %d\n", $f++, $e++, $e++, $e++);
    }
}
#
# Now wrap up the object description...
#
print "\nEnd DESC\nTOBJ\nEnd OBJ\n";
exit(0);



##

Subject: Re: missing faces
Date: Tue Mar 26 12:36:29 1991
From: bloom-beacon!think!ames!scubed!crash.cts.com!andyg (Andy Guevara)

I had a similar problem with an object I had made from scratch. It turned
out that all of the faces had not been made into "official" Imagine faces.
I found out when I tried to multiple select a bunch of faces in the area I
was having problems with, and a couple kept staying out of the group. When
I added these guys in, it all turned out all right.

Hope this is on the right track.

Andy


##

Subject: error2 during slice
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 91 17:19:12 -0500
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

On one of my objects, Slice comes back with a very uniformative
"error2 during slice" -- I have only a vague idea as to why this is,
but no clue how to circumvent it.

I was trying to make a Chess Knight and add a recessed eye-hole to the
horse's head.  I used a sphere, positioned to be 50% within the
object, but slice comes back with this "error2" within a few seconds.

Has anyone else encountered this one?  Have you found any way to avoid
this error? (other than not slicing ;-)

 ._.  Udo Schuermann        And now for something completely different:
 ( )  [e-mail]    An Iraqi dictator without his underpants.

##

Subject: Anyone heard of Fractal noise?
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 09:14:12 JST
From: kddlab!nanko.digital.co.jp![e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

Last night, I was in a bookstore looking at some magazine totally
dedicated to the computer as a creative tool there was a section
called 'Confenssions of An Amiga User'. It featured images
created with Lightwave ( is that correct name of the Toaster program ?)
and something that I think was called "Fractal Noise" ( Fractal Wave -
maybe). The images looked pretty impressive. There was objects with some very
elaborate texture mapping it would seem.

I have never heard of this program before. Does anyone have it?  Is it
a potentially useful tool that can be used with Imagine?

I don't recall the name of the magazine. I had never seen this publication
before. I think the name began with a V ( Verbim? ). It was $7 us; I would
have bought it except that at an import price of 2800 yen ( approx $25)
that is too much.  It seems like quite a good magzine for covering
artists who use computers creatively.  It covers the MAC, PC and the Amiga.
Does anyone know of any other like publications?

##

Subject: error2 during slice
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 01:14:40 -0500
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

>[e-mail]/Edward Chadez:
>}[e-mail]/Udo Schuermann:
>} I was trying to make a Chess Knight and add a recessed eye-hole to the
>} horse's head.  I used a sphere, positioned to be 50% within the
>} object, but slice comes back with this "error2" within a few seconds.
>
> which sphere is it?  The "PERFECT" sphere?

The Primitive (faceted) sphere.  I know that the mathematically perfect
sphere is not the one to use for such operations.

OK, update time:

1. The exact error is "error2 splitting faces"

2. The error does NOT appear (and the function operates fine) if the
   objects involved are scaled way up!

My problem is effectively solved, although I am still wrestling with
the question "WHY?"

Keep your objects LARGE, folks!  It helps in the darndest situations.

Thanks, Ed!

 ._.  Udo Schuermann        And now for something completely different:
 ( )  [e-mail]    An Iraqi dictator without his underpants.

##

Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Fractal noise?
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 10:35:41 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> It featured images created with Lightwave
> and something that I think was called "Fractal Noise"
> I have never heard of this program before. Does anyone have it?  Is it
> a potentially useful tool that can be used with Imagine?

Hi Manjit (and others interested parties),

I am a beta tester for Lightwave. It is the 3D animation package that comes
with the Toaster and is not available without it. In fact, in the latest
version I am working with, the level of difficulty for some hacker to
separate the program from the hardware has been increased. Anyway, fractal
noise is (IMHO) the most powerful feature of Lightwaves surface attributes.
It can be used to modulate color, diffuse lighting, specular lighting,
transparency, reflection mapping, and bump mapping. You use it by specifying
a default surface value (for color, diffuse, etc.) and a texture value which
will be modulated against the default. Among the controls you have over the
noise are:
texture value - one of color, diffuse, specular, transparency, or reflect
frequency - amount of variance and detail in the noise function
size - defines how big the 3D "noise blobs" are
center - texture offset from object center
velocity - 3D velocity vector for animating the texture over time
falloff - specifies the percent of texture decay in 3D from the center
amplitude - for specifying bump map height (bump map doesn't use value)
contrast - contrast between surface value and texture value

I have used the noise function to create absolutely stunning animations
of flames, smoke, clouds, comet trails, etc. The fact that it can be animated
with a 3D velocity is what makes it so much more powerful than a random image
map. If you want to see a wonderful demo of Lightwave animation, check out
Todd Rundgren's music video "Change Myself" on VH1. Your local Amiga dealer
may have a copy also (I just duped a copy for my dealer).The entire video was
done with Lightwave. It does however only touch upon the possibilites of
animated fractal noise. I also have some still images on ab20.larc.nasa.gov
that I created with Lightwave that utilize most (but not all) of the programs
features. They are in incoming/amiga/Toaster_Pics and are availble as HAM
or IFF24 images.

As far as being a tool for Imagine, I'd say no. The things that Lightwave
does that you couldn't (or wouldn't want to) do in Imagine are not easily
transferable to Imagine. However, Imagine is a great tool for Lightwave
because the modeler that comes with Lightwave doesn't have near the features
that Imagine does. I've been coercing Allen Hastings and NewTek to improve
the modeler and my current beta release reflects some nice additions.

> I don't recall the name of the magazine. I had never seen this publication
> before. I think the name began with a V ( Verbim? ). It was $7 us; I would
> have bought it except that at an import price of 2800 yen ( approx $25)
> that is too much.  It seems like quite a good magzine for covering
> artists who use computers creatively.  It covers the MAC, PC and the Amiga.
> Does anyone know of any other like publications?

If you get any more info on this magazine, I would really like to hear it!
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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##

Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1991 14:57:36 EST
From: [e-mail]

Question:24 bit graphics and HAM anims

    I have been on this mailing list for about 1 month and I have been
following the many comments on DCTV and Colourburst. I am at a loss about what
is meant by 24 bit graphics. I have seen Impulse's Firecracker 24 in operation
(showing images from Imagine) and it was quite impressive, but how do these
products compare as far as resolution and number of colours go. I am curious
considering the Firecracker is over $1000 and these products cost under $500.
    Also, I was wondering if there are any programs out there that will play
HAM animations. Currently I cannot view HAM animations I have created on
Imagine without loading up the main program. I do realize there are two
formats, Imagine and ANIM, but ANIM seems useless to me since I have nothing to
view it with.
    Finally, is there anyone on this mailing list who lives anywhere near
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada or attends the University of Waterloo? If so, could you
please get in touch with me. Thanks alot, eh!
                                              D of D&J Autobody Inc.


##

Subject: 24bit color and comparisons (ignore if you have seen enough of this)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 17:03:55 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I am at a loss about what is meant by 24 bit graphics. I have seen
> Impulse's Firecracker 24 in operation and it was quite impressive, but
> how do these products compare as far as resolution and number of colours go
> considering the Firecracker is over $1000 and these products cost under $500.

24bit graphics implies that the internal representation of image data is
composed of 24bit pixels where 8bits are used for each of red, green, and
blue. This yields 256 possible levels for each primary color and enables any
pixel on the display to be any one of 16 million colors. Neither DCTV or
HAM-E are actually 24bit though they can load and display 24bit images.
There is also the issue of the type of output used whether its RGB or
composite NTSC. Because of the limited bandwidth defined by television
standards, NTSC can only reproduce slow transitions in color information
and is limited to approximately 2 million colors. Therefore, 24bit graphics
boards that only supply composite NTSC output are limiting the output well
below 24bit capabilities. The only graphics boards for the Amiga that are
available (or very soon to be) in the US that are 24bit with 24bit capable
output are the Colorburst and FireCracker. As for how they compare, here
is something I just finished sending to Ed Chadez:

I haven't seen the FireCracker yet but there should be no reason that its
output should be very different from Colorburst (unless they manage to get
its full resolution on screen rather than just allowing you to pan through
it).  Anyway, both Colorburst and FireCracker are hi-res 24bit RGB so they
have superior color spatial resolution over any NTSC composite video device
like the Toaster or DCTV. If you are primarily interested in viewing high
quality stills on your monitor, then Colorburst or FireCracker will give the
best results. However, if you plan to go to video tape, the quality of these
two devices won't matter because the conversion to a video tape compatible
format will bring you to approximately the same quality as the Toaster.
Actual comparison depends apon the conversion hardware used, but unless you
spend a fair amount of money (over $1K), the Toaster's NTSC composite ouput
will look better than the other two. The Toaster's output is quite clean (as
far as NTSC composite goes). DCTV on the other hand is a low cost composite
video device that uses a high degree of compression.  In my experience, the
Toaster produces a far cleaner output than DCTV as well as reproducing much
better color spreads without banding. The percieved resolution is also
higher on the Toaster. I am not certain if the lower image quality is due to
the compression, lesser quality hardware, or a combination of both. Digital
Creations says they are planning on releasing a new DCTV format that has
greatly improved image quality.  We'll see how they stack up then, but I
doubt it will look as good as the Toaster. Digitized video image look great
on DCTV but 3D generated stuff suffers a little (but it still puts HAM to
shame). DCTV's main strength is the small file size which allows real-time
animation.

As for specs on resolutions and # of colors, take them with a grain of salt.
DCTV, Toaster, and Colorburst all claim approximately the same specs in
these two areas yet the image quality varies dramatically. The choice boils
down to: what do I need for my application, what looks good, and what can I
afford. But since you asked, here is an excerpt from a posting by Don Tillery:

                 Toaster    DCTV   ColorBurst  HAM-E    A2140   Firecracker 24
                 -------    ----   ----------  -----    -----   --------------
Vendor           (NewTek)  (Digital (M.A.S.T)  (Black (Commodore)  (Impulse)
                          Creations)            Belt)

Highest Res.     768x480   736x480   768x560  384x480  1024x1024   1024x480
Onscreen colors   16.7 M    16.7 M    16.7 M 256/256K    256+3      16.7 M
Palette size      16.7 M    16.7 M    16.7 M   16.7 M    16.7 M     16.7 M
Compatible Amigas 2x000      All       All      All    2x00/3x00   2x00/3x00
NTSC/PAL           NTSC      NTSC      NTSC   NTSC/PAL     ?         NTSC
Output format     comp.     comp.      RGB      RGB        ?         RGB

%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: 24bit color and comparisons (ignore if you have seen enough of
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 15:43:35 MST
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

> I haven't seen the FireCracker yet but there should be no reason that its
> output should be very different from Colorburst (unless they manage to get
> its full resolution on screen rather than just allowing you to pan through
> it).

Just a quick reply to this.  I own the FireCracker 24, and they do get the
full 1024x480 resolution on screen, no panning is necessary.  There are 2
other resolutions to choose from 512x480, and 768x480.  Overall, I am very
pleased with the FireCracker, and am very anxious to see how Impulse has
implemented their 24 bit paint program.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Imagine & The A3000
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 18:43:45 -0500
From: [e-mail] (J. Norell Guttman)

Hi,
    My friend got an A3000 and he says his Imagine does not run on
his machine.  Is there a new release or something that will cure this?
    Second question is how much faster would his machine render an
scene [25mgHz with 68882] in comparison to my A500?  Is it worth upgrading
to a full blown A3000 or should I wait till the 68040 comes out or even
eventually the A4000?

                Sorry if this has nothing to do with

                    immagine...

                    J.Norell Guttman
                    [e-mail]
                Just a freshman at CWRU.....


##

Subject: Imagine & The A3000
Date: 27 Mar 91 21:13 -0600
From: Colin Stobbe <[e-mail]>

Hello,
     I bought my 3000 in December, and have been successfully running
Imagine 1.0 since I got it (under WB 2.0).  I haven't had any problems
with Imagine (well, at least after I got more memory :-) ).  As to the
speed, it just zooms along, minutes instead of hours, hours instead of days.

          Colin Stobbe
          [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: 24bit color and comparisons
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 09:48:38 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>What do you mean when you say that FireCracker shouldn't be any different than
>Colorburst unless they manage to get its full resolution on screen rather than
>just allowing you to pan through it?

I received a few replies on this subject.....

Many graphics boards on other systems have a large image area (say 2K x 2K)
and then a smaller display window that can pan around the image memory.
Since I have not actively pursued the Firecracker, its internals are still
a bit unknown to me. When I saw a resolution of 1024 x 480, I thought it
was a rather odd display dimension (768 x 480 makes more sense in terms of
pixel aspect ratio and video resolution), consequently I questioned whether
that was the full display resolution or merely the image memory resolution.
I have been informed that it is in fact the display resolution which is
33% more than Colorburst. Sorry about the confusion, I just thought that was
a goofy aspect ratio (sort of like Commodore's 1280 x 200 or whatever it is
on the 3000......goofy!).
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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##

Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1991 11:14:24 EST
From: [e-mail]

Subject: Upgrade A500 or buy an A3000.

        I do not consider myself a professional as far as deciding which system
is better. I am, however, in the same boat as Colin. I currently have an A500
with 2.5 megs and an external floppy drive. I need to upgrade if I plan to use
Imagine to any real degree. At the university I use their A3000UX systems and
they are truly incredible (I think). In order to upgrade my A500 to a
comparable level I would need an 030, 32-bit RAM, a flicker-fixer, a hard
drive, the new chip set and a multiscan monitor. I calculated the total to be
in the neighbourhood of a brand new A3000! I figured it would be a lot easier
to buy a 3000 and have everything under one roof than to have a souped up 500
(without the 2 MB Agnus). If I upgraded my system it would just be a great
setup slowed down by the computer itself, everything else would be faster,
while on the A3000 everything (except for graphics) is 32-bit which allows all
peripherals to run at full speed. As far as the 040 is concerned, boards for
the 3000 should be out in a couple of months. Commodore won't likely be coming
out with an 040 based machine before Christmas (I could be wrong, though).
Right now I don't have the $$$, but if I did I would definitely buy the 3000
rather than upgrading my 500. If you want raw power (like I do), go for the 040
because it will at least triple your speed. The decision is yours. Hope I
helped. Later, eh!
                   D&J Autobody


##

Subject: By product instead of by design
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 13:23:43 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Mark Thompson writes,

>I just thought that was a goofy aspect ratio (sort of like Commodore's 1280 x
>200 or whatever it is on the 3000......goofy!).

True, it is goofy, but just so everyone understands that 1280 x 200 was not by
design.  Rather it is a by-product of the enhanced chip set, ask Dave Haynie
for the details, as it made itself readily available there was no reason to
ignore it.  Who knows someday someone may use it.

Later,

John Rosner


##

Subject: Camo texture broken
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 12:16:53 PST
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

I have tried using the new Camo texture and every time I get a guru when
rendering starts (in scanline, haven't tried full trace).  I am running the
integer version on a stock 1000.

Has anyone else had problems?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Camo texture broken
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 12:16:53 PST
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

I have tried using the new Camo texture and every time I get a guru when
rendering starts (in scanline, haven't tried full trace).  I am running the
integer version on a stock 1000.

Has anyone else had problems?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Colorburst
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 22:43:59 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

If you want quality in a 24bit graphics device...actually, if you want a 24bit
graphics device, you will have to get either a Colorburst or a Firecracker.
The prices are quite different...Colorburst at $599 and Firecracker somewhere
between $1000 and $1500.

Mark...your post that had the different specs provided by Mr. Tillery is
wrong about a couple things:

Colorburst works in NTSC, PAL, and SECAM, not just NTSC. Second of all, going
from RGB to composite is better than coming from straight composite. This is
variable depending on the encoder and what you are comparing it to. The
Toaster does have good compsite output compared to other composite devices.
But, if you have a good encoder, an RGB source can't be beat. It would be
like copying from a CD to a tape, instead of tape to tape. Third of all,
you can take the RGB output and encode directly to D2, 1" and some BETACAM
machines (component). You can also get a Y/C encoder and go to SVHS very
inexpensively with a descent output...(~400 lines(?)).

Anyways, a good way to find out if the 24bit product you are looking to buy
is genuinely 24bit, ask the manufacturer if he can individually change the
color value of one pixel without affecting the values of another. Second of
all, find out if each pixel has its own individual 24bit number. (not 3
D/A converters outputting the image).

And to the person who posted:

"Wanna buy a duck?"

My response:

"A duck?"

Your turn.


Juan Trevino
Modern Media
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Camo texture broken
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 7:38:33 CST
From: think!rutgers!texbell.sbc.com!tnessd![e-mail] (Robert Wallace )

> I have tried using the new Camo texture and every time I get a guru when
> rendering starts (in scanline, haven't tried full trace).  I am running the
> integer version on a stock 1000.
>
> Has anyone else had problems?
>
> Jim Lange                             [e-mail]
> Oracle Corporation                    {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange

I'm running the floating point version on a 2500/30 and Camo worked just
fine for me.

Robert Wallace


##

Subject: Computer Animation Tape
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 08:47:09 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

Greetings!

I'm posting this solely for those of us who adore computer animation
(after all, isn't that one of the reasons you bought Imagine?)

There is a video tape available at your local Radio Shack called "The
Mind's Eye, a computer animation odyssesy" and it is really nice.  There is
also a tape about the voyager missions, which (I think) has some NASA
animation of the voyager craft.  When my wife and I were watching a demo at
our local Rat Shack (as my father-in-law calls it), she said,

    "That looks like the object you downloaded!"

and it _does_ look like the voyager object available on ab20....

Both tapes are available for ~$25 (each).  Please note that I am not an agent
of Radio Shack, just a sometimes customer.

And a broadcast note to the DCTV/Firecracker24/Toaster experts:  anybody
know of a way to record images WITHOUT going to video?  (ie, film?)

--ed chadez
(please no flames about "Rat" Shack, as I really don't care one way or
another about the store)

--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re: Colorburst
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 10:59:59 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Juan Trevino writes:
> Mark...your post that had the different specs provided by Mr. Tillery is
> wrong about a couple things:

Yeah, I realize this. I sould have punched it up a bit or removed everything
except resolution specs since that was the only reason I posted it in the
first place.

> from RGB to composite is better than coming from straight composite.
> It would be like copying from a CD to a tape, instead of tape to tape.

Not really because the RGB has to be converted to composite *before* it goes
to tape so any advantage RGB has is lost in the conversion. This would only
be true if the composite source didn't utililize the full limits of NTSC
composite on its output. The only way to make it look better is with a
superior encoder. Average encoders from manufacturers like Lenco start at
about $1500. In the long run, they will come out looking very similar. The
real advantage of RGB to video is versatility with uncompromised quality as
in the cases Juan mentions below.  If you are going to work with component
formats, converted RGB will far outshine composite sources. These are quite
expensive formats to work in however (D2 machines run around $80K). Even the
inexpensive S-VHS format is somewhat lofty. Panasonic AG7750 single frame
capable S-VHS unit has a street price of $6K (add an additional $2K for an
animation controller).  The real bargain for S-VHS will be the new animation
ready JVC unit. When I get some info on it, I'll post it but target price is
around $2.4K (no animation controller is needed).

> you can take the RGB output and encode directly to D2, 1" and some BETACAM
> machines (component). You can also get a Y/C encoder and go to SVHS very
> inexpensively with a descent output...(~400 lines(?)).

This is certainly true. There are many high-end possibilities I didn't get
into (I was aiming for a hobbyist perspective). I probably should have also
mentioned the non-profit video disk recording service those MAST boys are
doing for Colorburst owners, but I can't just type messages all day ;-)

While I'm on that subject, Juan, do you know what you guys are going to be
charging for that video disk recording service? Someone at the Expo said
it would be around $1/frame + media cost. I figured that had to be wrong
since people in my area who provide that service for profit charge around
$0.35/frame + media or time based rates of $50 - $100/hour. The hourly
rates are actually cheaper.

Hope I'm not boring you all to tears with unending non-Imagine video drivel.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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##

Subject: Re: Camo texture broken
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 11:23:32 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I have tried using the new Camo texture

Anyone care to describe this new texture. Sounds like it supposed to be
short for camoflage. What does it do?
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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##

Subject: Re: Advice on better-than-ham to video
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 11:50:34 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

I just got DCTV.  I had the same quandry, also basically the same set-up as
Doug.  The choice came down to Firecracker, Colorburst, DCTV, wishfull
thinking on the Toaster.  The deciding factor was the digitizer and the paint
package.  The final reasoning was when analyzing the "need", what do I do
with the output?

I don't send to service bureaus for high quality printing, though DCTV may
be good enough for that.  I'm sure it would depend on factors regarding the
image itself.

To date I have either printed or output to video tape things I've done.  For
my HP paintjet, HAM is probably good enough, though I'm anxious to try
DCTV to 24 bit IFF to ProPage, or any of the packages that will accomodate
24 bit, and see if printing from that makes any difference to my paintjet.  I
could have tried this, prior to DCTV, with outputing 24 bit from IMAGINE
but without a way to view it on screen I just wasn't interested.

Video tape is certainly DCTV's water for the duck.  I doubt if encoding
issues will come up with my VHS.  I don't have SuperVHS, and I don't do even
3/4" tape.  Of course, some day I may have SuperVHS or I may skip over that
and go to the next generation.  I went from the pre-halfbrite A1000 to the
A3000.

I digitize.  Primarily family stuff but also a surprising number of other
applications keep coming up.  I used Digiview, for its time a great product,
but then DCTV blew me away and spoiled me.  To do color, using the Sunrise
color splitter, used to take at least 2 minutes.  Now its quick enough to
have someone sit in a chair and get a full color portrait.  Taking images
from tape was always a last resort and inferior, but now they look as good
as they were on the tape.  I used to squint through the camcorders colorless
eyepiece to find my subject, now I look at the composite monitor (donated
by my A1000) and I see real time images either live or off the tape on the
monitor.  When I press left mouse button to capture it (assuming I press
pause on the camcorder first, if coming from tape) the image really is
exactly as it was on the monitor whereas it used to be degraded with
digiview.

Colorburst and Firecracker don't digitize, and I feel that at this point I can't
take full advantage of pure 24 bit RGB.  Colorburst may seem to be cheaper
RGB but don't forget it only comes with 1.5 meg, whereas DCTV uses the
memory I already paid for.

In summing up, DCTV is good enough for my use, I have some high ideals of
someday going professional in one of these areas.  I have obtained a lot of
good experience in digitizing and related areas from having Digiview, it
served its purpose.  Keep in mind technology is changing so fast there is
always a tradeoff between dollars spent today with functionality for
tomorrow.  For instance, by waiting for Toast on a 3000 tomorrow and then
jumping on it, one may miss something much better than a Toaster the day
after tomorrow while also missing out on the experience gained today.

Later,

John Rosner



##

Subject: Re: Computer Animation Tape
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 13:12:21 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Ed Chadez writes:
> There is a video tape available at your local Radio Shack called "The
> Mind's Eye, a computer animation odyssesy" and it is really nice.

I might add that you can get video tapes from the past Siggraph film and
video shows for $60 apiece. For those not familiar with it, Siggraph is the
premier computer graphics trade show, and the film and video show highlights
the best of the state of the art in the field.

For those interested, the phone # is 800-523-5503.

> And a broadcast note to the DCTV/Firecracker24/Toaster experts:  anybody
> know of a way to record images WITHOUT going to video?  (ie, film?)

Boy, and you thought we were talking expensive before. CG animation on
film is the BIG BIG bucks. Not only do you get soaked by the huge cost
of digital film recorders (as low as $10K but $100K is more typical for
high quality) but you now are working with resolutions of say 4K square.
There is a guy on comp.sys.amiga.graphics (I believe his name is Neil
Richmond) who works for Rythem & Hues (big CG animation outfit). He has
been posting a bit lately regarding their involvements in such endeavors.
He said they avoid film because of the expense and hassle.

Ofcourse there is the alternative of getting a used 16mm Bolex (or some
such) camera, pointing it at your tube, and clicking off frames. This
actually works ok and is still used by many Universities that have classes
in computer animation. Ed, I remember you saying that you already do this
with stills so you should be familiar with the problems involved. Besides
the task of getting the camera to do a respectable job (play with shutter
speeds, adjust display contrast, brightness & tint, and use a zoom lense in
a pitch black room), you also have to figure out a way to automate the
filming.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%       `       '                Mark Thompson                          %
%  --==* RADIANT *==--           [e-mail]                 %
%       ' Image `                ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark       %
%      Productions               [phone]  [phone]           %
%                                                                       %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Re: Camo texture broken
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 15:05:22 PST
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:[e-mail]'s message of 03-29-91 11:23

>> I have tried using the new Camo texture
>
>Anyone care to describe this new texture. Sounds like it supposed to be
>short for camoflage. What does it do?
>%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
>%       `       '                Mark Thompson                          %
>%  --==* RADIANT *==--           [e-mail]                 %
>%       ' Image `                ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark       %
>%      Productions               [phone]  [phone]           %
>%                                                                       %
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are correct. Camo produces a camoflage texture of up to five colors.  You
specify the average spot size, random seed, and RGB values for four colors (I
assume the object color is also included in the final texture, but I haven't
seen it yet--I'm the one getting gurus).

I was hoping to use it to simulate granite by using small irregular dots of
black, white, and grey tones.

Has anyone been able to produce a convincing marble texture using wood?  I've
had some success with two wood textures applied to the same object with high
grain variation (2 or 3) and low exponent (0-1), but it still is not
convincing.  I know I could use brush wraping, but I would prefer a good
algorithmic texture setting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Computer Animation Tape
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 15:27:03 PST
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

Another tape available is "Computer Dreams" which I bought for $10.00 (regular
price) at Rainbow Records in California (other audio/video stores probably also
have it).

It is pretty good and includes many film and advertising animations that we've
seen before, plus some more obscure stuff.  However, almost nothing is shown in
its entirety, just segments.  I don't know if this is because of legal or time
constraints, but it is frustrating to watch.

On the plus side, the Amiga is featured prominently in the "live" segments
inserted by the makers describing people using computers for art and animation.
For the price, it is a great deal.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Imagine 1.1
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 19:34:16 mst
From: steven lee webb <[e-mail]>

                Hello out there all of you animation FOOLS!

I just got my version 1.1, and I thought I'd give a review to those who
haven't gotten theirs yet.

                    -- Steve's review of Imagine 1.1 --

OLD BUSINESS:
Still doesn't do the IFF/ILBM conversion w/faces as stated in the first manual
that came with version .99!

NEW BUSINESS:
I tried out their new rotate effect, and got a very strange result.
I wanted to rotate an object 360 degrees over a series of 20 frames (seems
simple enough) so I applied the "Rotate" effect to an object, and put 360
(the default) as the value in the requester.  After doing a MAKE from the
stage editor, I had my object doing 4 rotations in the 20 frames, instead of
one.  I then reduced the degrees of rotation to 4 times less (90 degrees) and,
expecting a single rotation, I got the EXACT same results - (4 rotations of
the object!) - kinda cheezy, huh?  Perhaps it isn't a simple numerical error
after-all...

About the Accelerations:
It DOES do accelerations while following a path, which is a nice improvement
in their animation interface, but DOESN'T do acceleration/deceleration in
anything else (rotations and simple transformations) like LightWave and even
DPAINT does!  If you want to shrink, rotate, scale, pull inside-out, or
anything in the transformations requester with a changing velocity, you can't.
It'll still start and stop drastically.
    I know that this sounds picky, but this was another thing that made me want
to get imagine in the VERY FIRST PLACE - when they mentioned it in the
newsletter that advertised imagine for the very first time, they said that it
would include velocities, morphing & a cycle editor.  In the meanwhile, NewTek
has beaten the @#$% out of impulse in this category with LightWave.  "HEY,
IMPULSE!!  THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT SEPARATE THE GOOD ANIMATIONS FROM THE
BAD ONES!"
    They could've put it in with the new "Rotate" effect or the "follow path,"
but didn't.  I think that they are simply slapping a couple "easy to implement"
ideas into their software, without giving the revisions any REAL thought, or
maybe imagine wasn't written in a way to make upgrades & revisions easy.  I
thought that the effects modules were an attempt at that, but I guess not.

No information about the cycle editor changes, I'm not into that kinda stuff.

Another thing (while I'm making a complete #$% of myself)...
The installation scheme makes it very difficult to save any old revisions that
were made on my old Imagine directory - (i.e. I changed my icon, config file
file and opening picture - In order to keep them, I had to do a lot of
file-shuffling) and now, with their new protection scheme, it is impossible to
move, rename, or copy the file from directory to directory.  I know that this
could be interpreted as an argument for pirating, but I liked it better
the old way.
     _________
    /  ______/\
   /  /\_____\/    ---------------------------------------------
  /_____   /\        Never call a man a fool; borrow from him.
 _\____/  / /      ---------------------------------------------
/________/ /
\________\/teven Webb  Reply to: [e-mail]
           A Computer Science Major @ Colorado State University
            I have an amiga 500 with 5MEGS RAM, and a 50MEG HD.
                   [why are you looking at me so funny?]
                     (Yes, I HAVE voided my warranty!)


##

Subject: Cycle bug still in 1.1
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 19:43:19 EST
From: [e-mail]


CAUTION:
    Re: repeative saving and loading of a cycle object in the
Cycle Editor (ver 1.0 and ver 1.1).
    At some point, usually on the the eighth load (never less but
sometimes more) your cycle object will become *unloadable* and you
will be presented with the requester,
        * Not a (proper) animated object file*
    The object is loadable and usable in the Stage Editor, however
no other work may be done on it, in the Cycle Editor.
    Several weeks ago, I reported this 1.0 bug to Impulse (it's
still with us, though) and recall posting a message to this List at that
time (asking for feedback, of which I got none).
    For those who are willing to take the time, please preform this
simple test: create a cycle object (you need not even make assignments),
save it, reload it and save and reload ......
    I would like to get feedback on this topic from someone.

thanx - stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]


##

Subject: 1000 Camo Texture Bug
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 19:47:05 -0800
From: [e-mail] ( James McInnis)

>Jim Lange <[e-mail]> writes:

>I have tried using the new Camo texture and every time I get a guru when
>rendering starts (in scanline, haven't tried full trace).  I am running the
>integer version on a stock 1000.

>Has anyone else had problems?

  Yes, I encountered this with my stock 1000 but had no trouble with the
FP version on a 68030/882 2000. The GURU is always a 000000B.xxxxxxxx
which seems to indicate a 68000 CPU trap (Op Code 1111). I tried it
recently on a friend's 1000 and got the same results.
  I called Impulse tech support to tell them and they said that the
interger and floating point versions of the textures are the same up to
a point, expressed suprise at the GURU and stated that the 1000 was
"their old stalwart". They said send the disk back in.

Jim


##

Subject: Computer Animation on Laserdisc & the Harlequin
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 91 10:26:43 JST
From: kddlab!nanko.digital.co.jp![e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

Here in Osaka, I have seen various compilations of computer graphic
animation available on Laserdisc.  If people are interested I could find
out what is available and costs etc...

Has anyone got anything to say about the Harlequin board from Scotland?
I saw a posting on in back in January.  It sounds quite impressive but
far out of a hobbyist's range.

Well here's the original posting:

From [e-mail] Wed Jan  9 04:12:12 1991
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: ACS Harlequin 32-bit framebuffer info.
Date: 8 Jan 91 19:12:12 GMT


The Amiga Centre Scotland have asked me to post some information about their
new 24-bit graphics board.  I have no connection with them apart from this,
and I don't understand video technology, so please direct all enquiries to
them.

The board is an internal Zorro II compatible card for the Amiga 2000/3000.
It has a 32-bit architecture and comes in four models:

Harlequin 1500:    1.5M RAM
Harlequin 2000: 2M RAM + Alpha Channel
Harlequin 3000: 3M RAM + Double Buffering
Harlequin 4000: 4M RAM + Alpha Channel + Double Buffering.

All models may be upgraded to later ones.  Other upgrades avaliable include
a Video Framegrabber and a CCIR 656 Interface for 601 Digital Video.
The board is compatible with other accessories such as Single Frame
Controllers, Film Recorders, Harlequin Genlock, PAL Encoders, Video Printers
and Input devices such as Tablets.

The board produces RGB + Composite Synchorous output (pk-pk 75 ohm), plus
Genlock I/O Control lines and Digitial Key output.  It supports both PAL
and NTSC.  Resolutions provided are:

PAL:    740x576            NTSC:    740x486
    832x576                832x486
    910x576                910x486


    Vertical         Horizontal
            interlaced    non-interlaced
PAL:    50 Hz        15.625 KHz    31.25 KHz
NTSC:    60 Hz        15.734 KHz    31.50 KHz


The board is supplied with a programmer's interface "allowing full access
to all its features", including an Amiga device driver, an Amiga library,
and a manual for the Harlequin.  It also comes with software for displaying
IFF files, plus output from Real 3D, Sculpt-Animate, Scanlab "and many more".

Software switches are provided for setting the horizontal resolution,
interlaced/non-interlaced, buffer accessed, buffer displayed, and separate
RGB and Alpha Channel on/off.

The Double-Buffering option means that two images are available and can be
updated separately.  "This is essential for real-time, smooth animation,
for effective slide-show displays and to implement undo options in paint
software".

The Alpha Channel option refers to the extra 8 bits of the 32-bit architecture
beyond the 24 bits used to store images.  It can be used to provide 256 levels
of linear keying for anti-aliasing, or can be used to allocate a single
bit-plane as a digital key output for cutting between Harlequin graphics and
other video sources, or for multiple masks or a Z-buffer.


That's all the information I have.  I don't know how this compares to
other boards on the market.  I also don't know the final price: all I've
heard is the phrase under #2000 (two thousand pounds), but I don't know
which model that referred to.  I believe that the board is available now.

For further information, please contact:

Amiga Centre Scotland, 4 hart St. Lane, Edinburgh, EH1 3RN, Scotland.
Tel: [phone]        Fax: [phone]
(Ignore the 0 in these numbers for international calls.)

--

 Dave Berry, LFCS, Edinburgh Uni.      [e-mail]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I don't know how to do that stuff which puts '>' on the first column.

There was also a brief write up on it the February ( I think )issue of
'Amiga Format' a UK publication.

Anyway, yet another 24 bit device has joined the fray!!


Manjit Bedi


##

Subject: 1.1 features
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 91 21:47:57 EST
From: [e-mail]

I FINALLY got my 1.1 upgrade. After some problems of a corrupted disk,
(&*#^*#&!!!) I extracted a good copy by mix-matching files with my 1.0
version.

Geez! Nobody mentioned a lot of the neat features! Simple things, like
tiled brushes, are terrific! I've got to cobble up some flat surface
textures like fences and brick walls...

I was also surprised to notice two features- animated brush maps and
the rotation F/X for the Stage editor. Remember my 15K "rolling ball" anim
tutorial I posted about 6 weeks ago? The first half was on manually
animating brush maps, and the second was ways of getting the ball to
roll properly... Looks like Impulse is somewhat on track on what people
are interested in.

Still havn't figured out "taut", but fracture and split are kinda fun.

On to more experimentation.....

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re: Computer Animation Tape
From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 91 08:33:44 CST

> And a broadcast note to the DCTV/Firecracker24/Toaster experts:  anybody
> know of a way to record images WITHOUT going to video?  (ie, film?)

I know you can send you movie films to the local photo lab and they will copy them to tape. Will they go the other way around and copy tape to film?

                    Tom the Smith

##

Subject: Re: Computer Animation Tape
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 91 11:59:51 CST
From: Michael P Callahan <[e-mail]>

> I know you can send you movie films to the local photo lab and they will copy them to tape. Will they go the other way around and copy tape to film?
>
Film Craft Laboratories in Detroit does video to film transfer- I think the
cost is $60 a minute.  This is a transfer to 16mm  film with optical sound I am
not sure of the quality but they are willing to supply a short test of your
transfer gratis.
>


##

Subject: Read/Write Error on V1.1 disk!
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 91 11:08:51 -0800
From: Uwe Voigt <[e-mail]>

I just received version 1.1 on disk.  The readme file explained all of the
neat fixes and added features.  Well I was all excited to try it out.  While
the install program was copying "im.lzh" to ram:, a Read/Write error was
found on the floppy disk.  Has anyone else had this problem?  I called Impulse
and they said just send the disk back.  What a bummer!!  Has anyone with
this problem "fixed" it or worked around it?  I used "DiskDoctor" but when
it finds the error it wants to delete the file(im.lzh).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I'm a saddened Imagine user....
Uwe


##

Subject: Easter and Chess
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 91 19:43:05 EST
From: [e-mail]

Wow, the Easter break killed our circulation... ONE post all weekend!

-----
I've posted some very nicely done chess pieces to ab20.larc.nasa.gov.
They are in the incoming/amiga/3d/imagine directory, named chesspieces.lzh.

Doug, I tried putting them on hubcap as well, but it wouldn't let me upload...

These are not the same pieces that are in first big object archive. These are
much more complex, though of a very similar style. They have already been
MERGED and have a nice polished bone coloring.

The README-
-----
These are a very nice set of chess pieces designed by Randy Brown.
They are copyrighted by him, but freely distributable. Note that these are
much more detailed than the original OFF designs.

I wrote a quick C program which converted these objects to Imagine format from
OFF format using Glenn Lewis' TTDDD utility. They are named and have an OK
polished bone attribute, which you can obviously change. They are all scaled
to the same height, so you might want to scale some pieces down in size in
relation to the Queen and King.

These files are freely distributable as long as this text file is transferred
with them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                       [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------

A quick note- if you ever want to get into the object conversion business, get
TTDDD (Textual Three Dimentional Data Description), by our very own Glenn
Lewis. It's the only way to go...

Have fun with your games, guys. Now for a really nice chessboard with
stone squares, chrome edging, and wooden frame... yeah.... Sigh. I'll have
to put off my sailboat, I guess.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Imagine Video
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 91 00:18:32 EST
From: [e-mail]

Rick Rodriguez gave me an update on his video:

> Steve, "Imagine: the Possibilities" has now expanded into two separate
> 60-minute cassettes.  Part one should be shipping by Friday and focuses
> on object creation, attributes and scene generation.  Part two will be
> available in 30 days and covers animation and advanced topics like
> single frame recording, etc.  Both tapes are being mastered in 1-inch
> and have 24-bit graphics throughout.  Even for gurus like yourself, I
> believe the videos will be a must-have.
> --Rick Rodriguez


Looks promising! Full review when I see it, probably in a couple of
weeks. Rick, thanks for the update!


I've been playing with tiled brush maps, and made a very nice rose
trellis, using a repeatable 64x64 24 bit brush map. Very, very, nice,
as it looks good far away and right up close there is much more detail
than a procedural texture (currently in Imagine, anyway) would give
you. I'll post it to ab20 soon.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Re: Read/Write Error on V1.1 disk!
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 91 00:56:31 PST
From: [e-mail]

Yes, my Imagine 1.1 disk had the same read/write error. I'm pretty sure
I have seen other people post with the same problem as well. What's going
on? Did Impulse put a bad file out or buy a (very) cheap batch of disks?


=======================================================================
Sean Schur                        USENET: [e-mail]
Assistant Director Amiga/Media Lab        Compuserve: 70731,1102
Character Animation Department            Plink: OSS259
California Institute of the Arts
=======================================================================

##

Subject: Exploded Garden raytrace
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1991 07:23:38 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

*Exploded_Garden* is a recent ray trace of mine that won 1st prize
in the 3 Dimensional Image category of the Third Annual AmigaWorld
Expo Art and Video Contest. It was made entirely with Imagine1.0
    You can get Exploded_Garden.LZH by anonymous FTP on site
ab20.larc.nasa.gov in directory incoming/amiga
    This particular version is in hi-res (only 16 colors) and
I consider it my most realistic image to date. The image contains
between 35,000 to 40,000 polys and took the full 10megs on a 3000
to render in trace mode.
    For those who are able to ftp this pic, I hope you enjoy it.
If there are any questions, I'll be happy to answer.

Oh, and btw, I have had problems posting to this group in the past,
(multiple copies!). We hope this problems are now solved. If you
do get multiples, please let me know (i'm sure everyone will:-))

stephen menzies

--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]

##

Subject: Brush Wrapping
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 91 07:56:05 EST
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

Is there a text that describes exactly how to do brush mapping and
placement to precise coordinates.  I have yet to master this process
and I would love to learn how to do this.

Thanks

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Happy 500th!
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 91 16:26:03 EST
From: [e-mail]

This is the Five Hundredth post to the Imagine Mailing List. At the
rate we've been going, we should hit 1000 by the end of April.... :-)


In celebration, I've posted my rose trellis map to ab20.larc.nasa.gov,
in incoming/amiga/3d/Imagine/MAPS, named lattice.lzh. It has a text
file that describes exactly how to use it. It looks spiffy! Give it a
try.

I also cleaned up the Imagine directory, with sub-dirs like OBJECTS, TEXT,
MAPS, MISC, PROJECTS, PICS, and maybe one more. This is the place to put
neat stuff. Doug, you should make hubcap uploadable....

Have fun everyone, and tell me what you think of my trellis.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re: Happy 500th!
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 91 14:46:51 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

So Steve...

What lucky "Imagineer" (with apologies to the Walt Disney Company) posted
the 500th message??

Also--I just got my update disk!  Regretfully, CARL Systems don't have any
Amigas so I'll have to try it when I get home.  Is there anybody out there
who hasn't upgraded yet?

--ed


--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: v1.1 questions
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 06:08:57 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

Please excuse the ignorence on my part.  There, I said it up front.

I just received v1.1 and I have some questions that maybe someone can help
me with.  First of all, how does Alignment Bar and Position Bar work in
the pull down menus in Stage Editor??  I tried using them after I had
moved the camera, but the camera didn't realign.  (Yes, I've read the
new_features file, but missed the part about alignment.)

Also, when I'm building an anim or IAnim on a 30 frame animation, Imagine
stops building after the 11 frame.  It just stops.  There's no error
message (like, "You're out of memory, stupid" or "Bad Picture"), it just
stops.  I can always use HERMit and do a screen capture and build the
frames by hand with makeAnim, but that's not the point.  Has this happened
to anyone else.  (FYI, my system is a A500, .5Meg Display + 1.5Meg Fast,
32Meg HD with PLENTY of room.)

And finally "thanks and a tip o'the hat" to Impulse for the added features
of v1.1!!  I think I mentioned to Steve once that our little (how big is
the group now, Steve?) mailing group had something to do with some of
them.

Great Work Guys!

--Edward Chadez,
  "Imagineer."

--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: v1.1 questions
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 10:01:53 PST
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:[e-mail]'s message of 04-03-91 06:08

Ed Chadez writes:

>I just received v1.1 and I have some questions that maybe someone can help
>me with.  First of all, how does Alignment Bar and Position Bar work in
>the pull down menus in Stage Editor??  I tried using them after I had
>moved the camera, but the camera didn't realign.  (Yes, I've read the
>new_features file, but missed the part about alignment.)

Each of the "Bar" commands in the menu have the effect of breaking the
corresponding bar in the Action screen.  So if you move an object in a frame,
in order for it to become a key frame select Position Bar and in the Action
editor the position bar for the object will be split at that frame.  Alignment
Bar has the same affect when you want a new alignment (rotation) to be
registered.  In your case, the camera must be manually aligned first then
Alignment Bar will create a new key frame by splitting the alignment bar.  You
still must do the Amiga-C <Return> step to realign a camera that is tracking an
object, however.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: pose
Date: Mon,  1 Apr 91 17:25:01 PST
From: [e-mail]

Has anyone with the new version of Imagine used the touted "pose" feature
which is supposed to simplify going to the cycle editor?  Is there a
readme file on the disk which explains how this works?  How are the
results?

-Mike


##

Subject: Is there a deadline on the upgrade?
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 09:17:18 JST
From: kddlab!nanko.digital.co.jp![e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

For upgrading to 1.1 is their any time limit?
I have not received any info from Impulse to this day.  I sent my registration
card in last year a few days after buying the package.  Mind you, the
information would be sent to my home in Canada and then my family would
forward it to me.


##

Subject: Precise Wrapping
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 09:52:55 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Bob Lindabury asks:

>Is there a text that describes exactly how to do brush mapping and
>placement to precise coordinates.

Good question, I assume by the quiet, there isn't.  On flat mapping there
should not be a problem with turning coordinates on and then just measuring
where the corners are by moving the mouse to them.  In wrapping it would be
nice to be able to specify four corners to limit the wrap in case a complete
would wrap wasn't wanted.

Later,

John Rosner


##

Subject: ImagineCAD or Wishful thinking?
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:35:24 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

I was talking to a friend the other day who was talking about building a
certain piece of furniture, we talked about various designs.  I went home
and built it with Imagine, using Louis Markoya's (I hope I spelled it right)
Surface Master, I used Cherry because either Cherry or Oak seemed to be the
choices for the real thing.

(Interesting aside: I used "apply to children" to do the wood texture, and it
looked like the entire piece was carved from one block of wood which
makes sense as apparently the texture is "extruded" in the third dimension.
It looked great even then but will look better once I give each piece its own
grain.)

I used DCTV to digitize an Elk and applied it to an area he had talked about
carving a scene into.  After rendering the whole thing I put this out to tape
via DCTV (in 24 bit color).  I was surprised at how good it looked on my TV.
I took it to his house and showed it to him and he couldn't believe it.  We
had talked about two days before and he didn't know I was doing this, then
he saw essentially a photograph of what he had conceptualized.

Then we started talking about converting it to plans which brings to mind a
great wish: printing the three views or better yet converting the views(s) to
the structured drawing format that was submitted as an IFF standard by the
ProVector people (DR2 or R2D2 or something).  Sure one could screen shot a
view then do an IFF trace into ProDraw or whatever but there would be a lot
lost in the translation of detailed objects.  Also there is too much detail of
the third dimension in the views, and all the facing information in the forth
view.  Glen Lewis are you out there?  This could be done as a separate
utility or as part of Imagine.  What it would do for the Amiga is move it to
a whole new level of CAD.  CAM comes later.

What do you think?

Later,

John Rosner


##

Subject: Re: Imagine: "World Famous Support" ?? (LONG)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 15:47:43 -0500
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> you write:
>
>Here is a bug that really gets me:
>
>  The "no ram" and similar windows that have the front back gadget.  When
>you click it the program hangs (you cant get it back to press "ok").  Theres
>probably a key sequence to bring it back in front in work bench.

For these situations I strongly suggest to you to sacrifice the memory
needed to run something like DMouse.  Under AmigaDOS 1.3 I suggest you
use DMouse 1.2; It allows you to drop windows behind others even if
they have no backdrop gadget.  Screen blanker, mouse blanker, etc is
also part of DMouse.

>Anyway, could someone email me how to make a glass object?  Ive been trying,
>but the object is never transparent (surely something really stupi)
>I would surely appreciate it!

Glass:    Color (R,G,B)    0,0,0
    Filter (R,G,B)    245,245,245
    Refract        1.67

Color is all 0 for a neutral glass.  For yellowish glass you can adjust
the color a bit.  Experiment.
    Filter should, perhaps, be called "Transparency level".  It
represents how much light is let through.  245,245,245 means nearly
transparent 245/255 = 96% of all light passes through.  The refraction
index is straight from a physics book.  Values from 1.00 to 3.55 are
usable in Imagine.  I think that most glass is 1.67; it may also be
that 1.67 is for water, I forget.  2.00 is for crystal.

I suggest you try the following:

Add a ground.  Assign the checks texture to it.  Make the checks black
and white, and fairly small.  Place a series of spheres above the
ground, nearly touching the ground.  Keep about 1/10th the sphere radius
between ground and sphere.  This will make sure that the sphere
refracts the checks nicely.
    Change the spheres refraction in increments of 0.2 or some
other arbitrary value.  Change the Filter value in a similar way,
and perhaps the color, too.
    Place a light source above the scene, don't worry about
diminishing intensity or shadows.  Move the camara above, looking
down, and use "Trace" (not Scanline) mode.

If all goes well, the spheres should show "wildly refracted" grid-
patterns, and each sphere will give you an idea of what the
different settings will do.

If you noted down the values for the spheres, you could pin them
up on the wall for reference when you view the picture again.

Spin/Sweep:
    Spin will spin around the object's AXIS
    Sweep will take the end points and consider these as an axis.
    I'm not entirely certain about sweep, but try an object like
    this:
                      Y
         1    *     ^
           /      |
       2  *       +--->X
              |
              |
           3  *------*  4

    I think the object will sweep along an axis that runs through
    points 1 and 4.

Hope this helps,

 ._.  Udo Schuermann        "How is American beer similar to making love in
 ( )  [e-mail]    a canoe?" -- "Both are f***ing close to water."

##

Subject: ImagineCAD or Wishful thinking?
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 08:39:10 PST
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis ~)

>>>>> On Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:35:24 EST, John J. Rosner <[e-mail]> said:

[description of ingenious use of Imagine deleted...]

John> Then we started talking about converting it to plans which brings
John> to mind a great wish: printing the three views or better yet
John> converting the views(s) to the structured drawing format that was
John> submitted as an IFF standardthe ProVector people (DR2 or R2D2
John> or something).  Sure one could screen shot a view then do an IFF
John> trace into ProDraw or whatever but there would be a lot lost in
John> the translation of detailed objects.  Also there is too much
John> detail of the third dimension in the views, and all the facing
John> information in the forth view.  Glenn Lewis are you out there?
John> This could be done as a separate utility or as part of Imagine.
John> What it would do for the Amiga is move it to a whole new level of
John> CAD.  CAM comes later.

John> What do you think?

    I think this is an awesome idea, John, and quite do-able, too!
It is no problem to get a list of points, edges, and faces of the object
with TTDDD.  Then, it would take a little bit of cleverness to create a
CAD-like representation of the three views by deleting all but the
important edges, but I think (do I dare say "know"?!?) it could be done.

    A year ago I needed a structured drawing program, and bought
ProDraw 2.0, with which I have been extremely pleased.  However,
ProVector does indeed sound like a very powerful tool, especially with
its ARexx port.  In fact, we wouldn't even have to understand the DR2D
format at all... we could just send ARexx commands to draw the three
views.

    If you are asking for a volunteer, I'm afraid I would need two
things:  ProVector, and time to write the program.  I'm afraid that I
have neither right now.

    But whoever wishes to write this, I will be happy to answer any
questions that I can.

                            -- Glenn

[e-mail] | These are my own opinions... not Intel's



##

Subject: Imagine archive #3 available ftp
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 14:28:30 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug Dyer)

With so much traffic (I guess v1.1 caused it) I am settling this one
early before the file grew as big as #2.

imagine.archive.3 is in pub/amiga/incoming/3D/IMAGINE/TEXT on hubcap.

about hubcap:
    Sorry for upload problems, the club changed ownership of
incoming from FTP to the president, and he forgot to do a chmod.
Anyway, I organized the IMAGINE directory like abcfd's.

    You'll also probably notice that the same files now on abc..
are on hubcap.  This is because when we go "shopping" we just make
our current directory the incoming, so all that we grab goes there.
Then we fire up zmodem, and ...

Just so you know why your stuff is showing up there...


Bye,
Doug
--
This is a damn serious signature file.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Doug Dyer [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: Is there a deadline on the upgrade?
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 20:10:37 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] (Manjit Bedi) writes:

>For upgrading to 1.1 is their any time limit?
>I have not received any info from Impulse to this day.  I sent my registration
>card in last year a few days after buying the package.  Mind you, the
>information would be sent to my home in Canada and then my family would
>forward it to me.

    If it has to come to Canada first then it may well take sometime.
In practice, when it comes to their registered users in Canada, Impulse
often responds by not sending the newsletters at all!! My girlfriend
is a registered user of TS and hasn't received a newsletter in 2 years.
Most folks in Montreal never got the last newsletter (I won't say all,
because I don't know everyone using Impulse products but I do know *most*).
    When another friend of mine said he hadn't got the last newsletter
I told him to phone Impulse and let them know. Their response was that
the mailing was too expensive to Canada!
    I'm on local graphic/animation bbs's (Electronic Image 514-937-9984)
in Montreal everynight. Talk about Animation and Imagine (especially) is
quite heavy in a good way. All the "Imagine talk" is archived and sent
to other bbs's (ie in Ontario). Whenever Impulse upgrades their software
their reputation for good customer service takes a slide (hey, there's
500 people on this bbs!). It's getting harder and harder to convince people
to become registered users of this great product.
    This is NOT the way to market a great product! This is the way to
get "caught with our pants down". The Amiga is now in R&D at the National
Film Board. It's being used at major education institutions to teach
3D animation (ie Concordia University, Department of Cinema -where I
teach it using Imagine). Imagine is not just a "cheap consumer product",
instead, it's a major player in revolution that happening in computer
graphics. It "is" a professional tool, as is the Amiga, because the word
professionalism is now as broad as the word "broadcast". Now, sure, on
the Amiga we're all familiar with "more power for the buck" and expect
cheap software. But how cheap, and at what cost? $166.US and not a
penny more? Well, hardly. Most of the folks up here doing 3D have some
pretty souped up machines and lots and lots of ram. Two or three years
ago a investment of $2000 was cheap. But now people have "uses" for
3D and $4000 to $8000 is still cheap. Would they pay more than $166.00
for more professionalism? Sure they would.
    But if you want REAL professionalism you have to go and buy
a $30,000 SGI Iris and a $20,000-30,000 piece of software. Right???
Well, lets take a look at what's really going on. That $30,000 Personal
Iris is now on a $5,000 24bit CARD called the IrisVision and it'll pop
into practically anything with a 386/387! What will run on this card?
Major players, thats who, like TDI, Wavefront, Alias, SoftImage. Is this
all true? Sure..I know SoftImage has already ported to it. Is the
software still expensive? Yes it is, but reps from both SoftImage and
Wavefront have conceeded on the side, that things will be VERY
different in 2 years once (specialized) mass marketting starts to take
hold. How about some more...Has anyone noticed that TDI is offering
their highend software free (plus maintanence) to EVERY University
and educational institution in North America for FREE. All you need
is the machines to run it and 10 students! .......Did anyone notice
the post that stated that Compaq and SGI are to be apart of a major
announcement  the week of April 8 (this week) that establishes a new
standard for the design of desktop computers? "Other participants will
be Microsoft Corp, Digital Equipment Corp, Santa Cruz Operation Inc.,
Mips Computer Systems, and Italy's Olivetti electronics group."
    "Here's how the experts see it: Compaq gets SGI computer design
expertise and access to it's graphics hardware and software. SGI gets
Compaq's high-volumn parts, lower production costs and market access..."
"..SGI's approach is to lower the cost of it's technology and find more
effective ways to market it...""..."Getting our products distributed
in a volumn way is important to us...."

    This is what I mean by "gettin' caught with your pants down".

Sorry, this is so long but there is need to discuss issues like this.

steve
--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]



##

Subject: Impulse's Support & C anyone
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 09:54:58 JST
From: kddlab!nanko.digital.co.jp![e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

What Steve Menzies said about Impulse with regards to the level of
support they provide for Canadian user's is apalling!  Imagine is not a
cheap piece of software. Imagine is touted is as a professional piece of
software but if Impulse does not want to be a professionaly minded company with
regards to Canada.  Well, I do not know.

Thank Goodness for this list!

If I had registered here from Japan and I had never heard about this list,
I might have never been able to do anything ( much) with this software.

And we all know the Amiga is a computer used quite a bit outside of the
United States.  Does Impulse provide much support for it's European
customers?

Enough harping from me.

Change of Subject...

Are there any C programmer's on the list who take their Imaginations and stuff
them into executables?  I just got my Lattice 5.1 compiler and dreaming of big
things.  I have some lofty ideas but I need to discuss feasibility with someone
.  If you like, contact me directly by e-mail.


Manjit Bedi



##

Subject: Re: Impulse's Support
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 06:42:11 +0100
From: [e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen)

Manjit Bedi (manjit%nanko.digital.co.jp%kddlab) wrote

> And we all know the Amiga is a computer used quite a bit outside of the
> United States.  Does Impulse provide much support for it's European
> customers?

First the bad part:

I bought Turbo Silver in 1989, and until now I have received one newsletter
(Spring 1990). It seems like Impulse won't mail the newsletter to Europe,
which is too bad:

I heard about the TS -> Imagine upgrade via USENET. If I hadn't been on the
net I would have had to pay about $500 for Imagine (the current price in
Denmark)!

I heard about the Imagine 1.1 upgrade via this mailing list.

Now for the good part:

I received version 1.1 yesterday, and after reading the about the new features,
I was ready to try the new program.
Unfortunately, it didn't work at all (click on icon -> instant guru!).
It seems that I forgot to tell Impulse that I needed a PAL version of Imagine,
so they mailed me a NTSC version.
When I called Impulse, they were very nice and told me that I just should
return the disk. When I told them that I live in Denmark, I was told to fax
them my address, then they would mail me a PAL version of the program.
I didn't have to return the NTSC version first.

So, at the moment I'm very satisfied with their tech-support.
If only they would mail the newsletter to overseas customers too...

Helge
---
Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 36 72 43 00  .
Copenhagen, Denmark



##

Subject: Re: Impulse's Support & C anyone
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 08:51:16 -0600
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

Whatcha got in mind for SAS 5.10?  I have it and it is great!  I've even put
a couple of programs out there myself.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])



##

Subject: Re: Impulse's Support
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 13:56:09 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

On Apr 5,  7:53pm, Stephen Menzies wrote:

[lots and lots of stuff deleted]

} ....(remember the ADA).

Funny you should mention ADA.  Isn't the president of Impulse also the
president of ADA?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

}
}-- End of excerpt from Stephen Menzies

-ed


--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Re: Impulse's Support
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1991 19:53:34 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen) writes:


>Manjit Bedi (manjit%nanko.digital.co.jp%kddlab) wrote

>> And we all know the Amiga is a computer used quite a bit outside of the
>> United States.  Does Impulse provide much support for it's European
>> customers?
>I bought Turbo Silver in 1989, and until now I have received one newsletter
>(Spring 1990). It seems like Impulse won't mail the newsletter to Europe,
>which is too bad:

>I heard about the TS -> Imagine upgrade via USENET. If I hadn't been on the
[stuff deleted]
>I received version 1.1 yesterday, and after reading the about the new features,

Perhaps someone, outside the US could inform me as to how they got version1.1
without getting the newsletter first. As of today, NOONE in Canada has
received anything (newsletter, disks, nothing!) from Impulse with the
exception of one college in Montreal who ordered 1.0 over 15 weeks ago,
was sent nothing, then phoned and was told to wait for 1.1 RSN (:-)). They
finally got it last week. Any information would be appreciated. Folks
here are getting quite hot over this and it's turning off ALOT of
potential customers. Even I don't have 1.1 and you can see I'm getting
a little hot too:).

I might also mention that good marketing, hence good service means
this:
    If you have 6 users in Japan and 20,000 users in the US, you
send the newsletter, upgrade etc to the 6 in Japan FIRST and then
do your mailing to the US. This way the folks in Japan have a chance
of upgrading at the SAME time as everyone else. This is what you call,
FAIR. It's also how you stop piracy....(remember the ADA).

stephen menzies


>Helge
>---
>Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
>Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 36 72 43 00  .
>Copenhagen, Denmark
--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]



##

Subject: ProPage 2.0
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 91 21:24:21 EST
From: [e-mail]

A note for those who want to include your 24-bit IFFs into Pro-Page 2.0-
it won't work.

ProPage won't read the file, and it will give you an error.

You can load the pic into Art Department and resave the 24-bit image, and
Pro-Page will work fine, though.

This is a bug in Pro-Page, not Imagine. I checked the format of its files and
it's completely legit. There is an IMRT chunk that presumably has info about
how it was rendered or something, but an IFF reader should skip over chunks
it doesn't know, as long as there's a BMHD chunk and a BODY chunk.

Just thought to warn anyone trying to make a newsletter or something.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: Need help with "grow" F/X
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 91 23:41:37 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug Dyer)

    Try as I might, the GROW effect has always eluded me.  I read the
two comic books and the zerox pages but can never seem to pull it off
(I always get a bad path object).

    Here is what I do:
         1) add an axis, then add points to it.
        2) I load an object (just a disk with its axis aligned
           like #1s)
        3) I group them by selecting 1 first and then two,
          save the new object

    In the stage editor, I add the object, and add an effects,
    accepting the defaults.  The animation is only one frame.

What is the stupid thing I'm doing?

Thanks,
Doug



##

Subject: Grow
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 91 06:38:27 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Doug, you're on the right track with grow. Unfortunately the extra xeroxed
pages of description are very terse and confusing.

The problem I think you're having is the path itself. It should be a
LINE SEGMENT path, not a point path. Adding an axis then using "add lines"
is probably the easiest way to make one.

Also, a one frame anim of a growing object is going to be pretty static-
or did I misunderstand your question.


-----

I played around with GROW when I was doing logos. I had a path that was
a cursive word, so when animated, the word wrote itself out. It worked all
right, though the pointed paths were hard to make follow a smooth course.
My big problem was the object wrote itself out nicely, but the attributes
were all screwed up- the joints were different colors, and even with Phong
shading, things looked broken and segmented. I never put the time in to
track the problem down.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: ProPage 2.0
Date:  7 Apr 91 13:56 -0500
From: Colin Stobbe <[e-mail]>

Hello,
     When I downloaded "Convert" from ab20, it had a text file that said that
some types of iff24 pictures were not "pure" including those from Impulses
programs (or maybe they were talking about RGBN files).  What the program does,
is to convert different picture formats into "plain vanilla" iff24.  Have you
tried this?  (the program I downloaded was called Convert-1.6.lzh)
          Colin Stobbe



##

Subject: Re: Impulse support
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 07:21:54 DST
From: [e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen)

Stephen Menzies (cam.org!S.Menzies) wrote:

> Perhaps someone, outside the US could inform me as to how they got version1.1
> without getting the newsletter first. As of today, NOONE in Canada has
> received anything (newsletter, disks, nothing!) from Impulse with the
> exception of one college in Montreal who ordered 1.0 over 15 weeks ago,
> was sent nothing, then phoned and was told to wait for 1.1 RSN (:-)). They
> finally got it last week. Any information would be appreciated. Folks
> here are getting quite hot over this and it's turning off ALOT of
> potential customers. Even I don't have 1.1 and you can see I'm getting
> a little hot too:).

Well, I knew that I probably wouldn't receive the newsletter :-(, so I just
mailed a pre-stamped envelope to Impulse (as described in this newsgroup).
I'm not quite sure of when it was, but I think that it was about 3 weeks ago.
As I mentioned I received the two days ago.

Helge
---
Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 36 72 43 00  .
Copenhagen, Denmark



##

Subject: ProPage 2.0
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 10:00:21 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Steve Worley writes:

>A note for those who want to include your 24-bit IFFs into Pro-Page 2.0-
>it won't work.

I didn't know it wouldn't work so I did it.  Because I didn't know and I wanted
the same picture printed in HAM, Hi-Res and 24 bit, I loaded an Imagine image
that had been rendered in 24 bit into DCTV.  Then wrote out one of each file
type.  ProPage read them all and printed them.  I was a little surprised at how
much better the 24 bit image looked than the others when printed, as it's only
a 180 DPI Paintjet.

A friend of mine uses Pagestream 2... so I tried the same files on it but
Pagestream would not load in the 24 bit image.

Later,

John Rosner




##

Subject: Re: ImagineCAD or Wishful thinking?
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 10:51:42 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Glenn Lewis writes:

>John> Then we started talking about converting it to plans which brings
>John> to mind a great wish: printing the three views or better yet
>John> converting the views(s) to the structured drawing format that was
>John> submitted as an IFF standardthe ProVector people (DR2 or R2D2
>John> or something).

>It is no problem to get a list of points, edges, and faces of the object
>with TTDDD.  Then, it would take a little bit of cleverness to create a
>CAD-like representation of the three views by deleting all but the
>important edges, but I think (do I dare say "know"?!?) it could be done.
>ProVector does indeed sound like a very powerful tool, especially with
>its ARexx port.  In fact, we wouldn't even have to understand the DR2D
>format at all... we could just send ARexx commands to draw the three
>views.

I just got ProVector.  I believe in standards and am hopeful of many products
coming about supporting DR2D, the IFF vector graphic standard.  Excellent point
about ARexx though.  Of course that only brings up another wish that Imagine
support ARexx.

Back to reality; I have Imagine, ProVector, and TTDDD.  With these tools, as
Glenn points out it should be possibe to output an object from the three views
of the Detail editor extract the essential information using TTDDD and create
ARexx commands to send this information to ProVector.  As Ed Chadez suggested
it would also be nice to take a structured drawing and send it to Imagine for
rendering.  The problem of time is a common denominator, but I will try and
look into it, so Glenn I may be sending some questions your way.

Thanks for the responses,

John Rosner

PS It would still be most desirable if Imagine would support DR2D directly for
exporting and importing objects.




##

Subject: fog? smoke? v1.1!
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 15:02:25 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

greetings.

I have a question for those of you who have not only the time to toy
around with v1.1 but also the power (ie, accelerators) to do so.

In the README file that came with the disk, there is mention of a new
feature in the brush requestor that refers to the absolute color of
transparency.  It is now set to 255, but previously was set to 244.  The
README file goes on to state that now you can have effects like smoke and
haze by modifying this attribute.  Then, while leaving me on the edge of
my couch wondering "how, uncle Impulse, can I do this?" the article goes
onto describe something else.

So my powerful friends, has anyone tried modifying this attribute,
or--better yet--really understand the purpose of this attribute's value?

-ed

(ANY comment, no matter how simple, will be appreciated!)

--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Firecracker technical question (any owners w/ a 3000?)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 17:47:35 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug Dyer)

In the newsletter, it mentions that the firecracker resides on the bus,
and has the video signal sent to it (so you just hook your monitor up to
the card, and detect no difference unless you use the card).

Assuming your monitor is hooked up to the card...
Questions:
    Will new non-NTSC modes such as productivity work (31.5KHz)?

    On a 3000, will the normal amiga-interlaced modes pass through
    the deinterlacer (also 31.5KHz)? I'm guessing no.


Thanks,
Doug



##

Subject: Re: fog? smoke? v1.1!
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 91 21:31:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Ed, Smoke and haze in 1.1 is just wishful thinking for Impulse...

The transparency limit for brush maps is pretty easy. If it is set at 255,
a PURE white color will become COMPLETELY transparent, absolutely crystal.
If it is set at 245, a pure white will be ALMOST transparent, with a little
absorbtion. If it is set at 128, A pure white color will be exactly HALF
transparent. For all of these, pure black is completely opaque.

Version 1.0 has this number hardwired at 245 or something... it was impossible
to get perfect transparency.

They DO mention fog or smoke... maybe they expect you to make a transparent
filter that covers the lens... this would dim everything, though not make
more attenuation with distance. A real fog algorithm usually blends the
real world color with a fog color based on an inverse exponential weighting
of the distance from the camera. Works really well. Its almost trivial to
implement well, so I would assume Impulse is working on it.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: More brushmaps!
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 91 05:53:50 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I uploaded two new brushmaps to both ab20.larc.nasa.gov and hubcap.clemson.edu.

They are repeatable brushmaps used for very detailed (though monotonous)
surfaces.

One is a section of sidewalk, complete with cracks. Looks excellent!!!!
One is a section of astroturf-like grass. Very cheesy, but works much better
than roughness.

The sidewalk is definately worth getting.

Someone mailed me saying he couldn't get my rose trellis to work. Has anyone
successfully used it? Please e-mail! I'll check it out if the problem isn't
unique.

Have fun, guys!

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: Re: Impulse support
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1991 07:34:31 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen) writes:


>Stephen Menzies (cam.org!S.Menzies) wrote:

>> Perhaps someone, outside the US could inform me as to how they got version1.1
>> without getting the newsletter first. As of today, NOONE in Canada has
[stuff deleted]

>Well, I knew that I probably wouldn't receive the newsletter :-(, so I just
>mailed a pre-stamped envelope to Impulse (as described in this newsgroup).
>I'm not quite sure of when it was, but I think that it was about 3 weeks ago.
>As I mentioned I received the two days ago.

Thanx, I'll try and let folks here know. Now, I just have to find out
what we use instead of US postage.

stephen

>Helge
>---
>Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
>Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 36 72 43 00  .
>Copenhagen, Denmark
--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: fog? smoke? v1.1!
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 91 09:45:57 DST
From: [e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen)

Ed Chadez (carl.org!echadez) Wrote:

> In the README file that came with the disk, there is mention of a new
> feature in the brush requestor that refers to the absolute color of
> transparency.  It is now set to 255, but previously was set to 244.  The
> README file goes on to state that now you can have effects like smoke and
> haze by modifying this attribute.  Then, while leaving me on the edge of
> my couch wondering "how, uncle Impulse, can I do this?" the article goes
> onto describe something else.

> So my powerful friends, has anyone tried modifying this attribute,
> or--better yet--really understand the purpose of this attribute's value?

I haven't been playing with 1.1 yet, but this is my guess.

With Imagine 1.0, I tried to create trees by drawing the tree with dpaint.
I made the tree totally black(#000), and everything else white (#fff).
Then I used this as a transparency map on a rectangle, and made the rectangle
green. (This was used in the Castle anim which can be found on ab20).

The result was a nice green (and flat) tree , but for some strange reason
you could see still the rectangle (althoug it was very faint).
My guess is that this was because Imagine 1.0 didn't set the transparency
higher than 244, ie. the rectangle wasn't totally transparent.
It seems that it now is possible to create a totally transparent rectangle
with the new version.

About haze etc.

It MIGHT be possible to create a haze effect by placing several partially
transparent grey rectangles at different distances in the view.
I haven't tried this, so I'm not sure.

The normal way to do this in raytracers is to build it into the rendering
algorithm (ie. to modify the color depending of distance to the observer),
I think that TS could this; at the moment Imagine can't.

Helge
---
Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 36 72 43 00  .
Copenhagen, Denmark



##

Subject: Re: fog? smoke? v1.1!
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 91 07:30:55 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

On Apr 9,  9:45am, Helge Egelund Rasmussen wrote:
} Subject: Re: fog? smoke? v1.1!
}
} With Imagine 1.0, I tried to create trees by drawing the tree with dpaint.
} I made the tree totally black(#000), and everything else white (#fff).
} Then I used this as a transparency map on a rectangle, and made the rectangle
} green. (This was used in the Castle anim which can be found on ab20).
}
} The result was a nice green (and flat) tree , but for some strange reason
} you could see still the rectangle (althoug it was very faint).
} My guess is that this was because Imagine 1.0 didn't set the transparency
} higher than 244, ie. the rectangle wasn't totally transparent.
} It seems that it now is possible to create a totally transparent rectangle
} with the new version.

Helge,

Do you know what result would be if you made the "rectangle" a BRIGHT
object?  Would you still be able to see through the white (#fff) parts??

Is there anyone who has (successfully) tried this?

}
}-- End of excerpt from Helge Egelund Rasmussen

-ed


--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Imagine1.1 upgrade.
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1991 14:54:24 EST
From: [e-mail]

        Fellow Imaginers, greetings from the Great White North, eh! I am a
registered owner of Imagine (I hope Impulse knows this) but I still haven't
heard a peep about this upgrade from the company. I went home last weekend and
NO MAIL. I did, however, get Surface Master. I haven't had a chance to try it
out yet because I have bigtime finals. Anyways, could someone please give me
the details on how to get my upgrade. I'll be off this mailing list by April 19
and I'd like to get the upgrade A.S.A.P. Thanks a lot!
                                                      D&J Autobody Inc. 1991



##

Subject: Re: Fog? Smoke? V1.1!
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 00:28:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I tried the trick of making a series of large almost-transparent planes
receding into the distance.

Looked terrible.

We'll have to wait for the real thing, I guess.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: bright/light faces on objects
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 13:57:43 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

Has anyone been able to make certian faces bright or lights without
making the whole object bright/light?

I know when you select faces, the bright and light gadgets are NOT
"fogged" out, thus making them available as face attributes...but do they
*WORK*??

thanks in advance for ANY advice, comments, fresh vegtables any of you may
offer.
-ed

--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Structured to objects
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 01:08:43 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

Someone wanted to take structured drawings and convert them to objects and the
other way around. Well, you can currently do this in 2D with Interchange.
Interchange by Syndesis will allow you to convert between PDraw clip files
and TS3.0/Imagine objects.

There is also a program called Draw 4D by Adspec Programming. I received a
demo tape from him with many sample images and animations. This program will
allow you to save any object that you create with it as a PDraw clip file.
I believe that he will be supporting one of the popular 3D object formats if
Syndesis does not release a module for his program.
Draw 4D Professional will be out in May and will have Gourad and Phong
rendering with a variety of features like infinite lights, objects, etc.
The modeler is VERY easy to use and understand. Fonts are great with this
package. Animation is also easy. Plus, this package will directly support
rendering to Colorburst.

Which reminds me, Caligari will also be rendering to Colorburst in the near
future, as may Sculpt Animate 4D. Real 3D will most likely be supporting
Colorburst directly also. Imagine is not scheduled to support Colorburst at
this time. I think the software should be independant of the hardware, but
that is my opinion and not Mike Halvorsan's.

Hey...Steve, how long would it take you to whip up a program that converted
Adobe Postscript Type I Fonts to an IMAGINE format? Apparently there is a
MAC program coming out in the next month that can read type I fonts. Can you
IMAGINE :-) the object font library possibilities?

Anyways, ta ta...

(back ground singing:

 ...a rendering we'll go, a rendering we'll go, hi ho merry-o, a render....)

Juan Trevino
[e-mail]



##

Subject: I need a faster 'puter!
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 17:38:50 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] wrote on Fri Apr 12 12:44:45 1991:
>
> I have a Amiga 3000/25.  How long should it take to do a full trace
> picture with perhaps one transparent (nearly) glass?  Does 4.5 hours
> sound reasonable to you?  I am running the floating Point version
> of Imagine.

The floating point version of Imagine uses inline floating point code
for maximum speed.  It does not use the libraries.
    I suspect that the non FP version uses the libraries, just
in case.
    You can probably SPEED UP your trace time SIGNIFICANTLY by
scaling up the whole scene in the stage editor.  Just be sure that you
also add a SIZE channel to the GLOBALS entry in the action script to
scale up the world size so that your scene doesn't fall outside the
world and get chopped there.
    A trace time of 4.5 hours on a 3000/25 definitely a "wee bit"
on the high side for a scene as simple as you describe.

> I have heard of replacement mathematic libraries that are faster than
> the ones Commodore provides.

I've once had a replacement mathtrans.library but I can't recall where
I got it from (comp.binaries.amiga?).  It died when a bug in MRBackup
turned into a data-slobbering demon and ate a bunch of stuff.  Never
replaced it.  I timed it at about 2.5 to 3 times the speed of the
original CBM mathtrans.library.

> I guess I am ready for a 68040! ;-)

Aren't we all? ;-)

 ._.  Udo Schuermann        We only came for the oil and to test our
 ( )  [e-mail]    weapons.  Thank you very much!




##

Subject: Whats in the Imagine Package?
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 23:09:07 MET DST
From: [e-mail]

I am about to become a proud owner of Imagine (finally :)
I had some questions...


What exactly is in the package? Like disks, manuals etc.
And more important... is there included a version of the program
to support 68882 code or is this a seperate version or something?
Like on Caligari (i think) where there is 4 versions at cost from
expensive to REALLY OFFENSIVE... :-)
How does upgrades work? Do I send in a registration and will Impulse
then tell me when there is a new release?



    Henrik Harmsen

  Internet: [e-mail]


Ps. And watch out for my stupid beginner-questions...:) I heard somewhere
    the learing curve for this program was as steep and rocky as
    Mt. Everest or is this an exaggeration...?



##

Subject: firecracker24 answers (non NTSC amiga modes)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 12:03:22 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug Dyer)

Hi.

My question earlier was will the firecracker24 allow 31khz signal to just
pass through it.  If so, a3000 users could continue to use productivity,
and perhaps the deinterlacer, when not using the card and NOT have to buy
a new monitor to do it.

The firecracker 24 card will not let any signal but NTSC through.  This
refers of course to productivity and deinterlaced modes.  If it genlocks,
it'll work.  Otherwise, you get garbage.

So you just have to use two monitors. One to the card and one to the vga
port.

Does anyone know if colourburst or dctv will allow 31khz signals to pass
through it?


##

Subject: I need a faster 'puter!
Date: 12 Apr 91 12:35:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

Greetings one and all...

I have a question:

I have a Amiga 3000/25.  How long should it take to do a full trace
picture with perhaps one transparent (nearly) glass?  Does 4.5 hours
sound reasonable to you?  I am running the floating Point version
of Imagine.

I have heard of replacement mathematic libraries that are faster than
the ones Commodore provides.  Is this so?  If yes, then could you
direct me to a source on this?  If not, do you really spend several
days creating a animation on your A3000?

I guess I am ready for a 68040! ;-)

I just purchased VistaPro... what a neat program!

 -mark=

 +--------+   ==================================================
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "Mr. AmigaVision,  The 32 bit guy"
 | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
 |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================





##

Subject: Imagine Crash
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 10:25:25 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Steven Worley)

Well, I had my very first crash of Imagine that wasn't due to another
program. I can reliably reproduce it, so I'll send off a report to
Impulse (with a video showing how it was done- thats a really clever
idea of theirs!).

The error is probably due to my mondo-brushmaps. A 512 by 512 24-bit
altitude brush repeating on a ground, 3 300x120 24-bit brush maps
of the USPS logo on a mailbox, a 320x200 24-bit global reflection
map, and a final 64x64 repeating 24-bit color map. I use a LOT
of memory, and the crash is probably due to this. (I have 2M Chip,
4M Fast). I'm running no other programs (except Workbench!) and
it only crashes on scanline or trace mode.

Just to warn people... Brushmaps are an incredible way to get detail.
They also eat RAM.

Keep on rendering!

-Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                     [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re: I need a faster 'puter!
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 14:09:49 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Mark Manes writes:
> I have a Amiga 3000/25.  How long should it take to do a full trace
> picture with perhaps one transparent (nearly) glass?

4.5 hrs does sound a little lengthy tracing a single object scene, however
there are a lot of factors to consider such as how much of the image is
filled with the glass. Also, Imagine has some peculiarities with rendering
times for different sized objects. Generally bigger absolute units render
faster.

> I have heard of replacement mathematic libraries that are faster than
> the ones Commodore provides.  Is this so?

Don't know about this, but if it is possible, the speedup is not likely
to be too great (not without greatly sacrificing accuracy).

> If not, do you really spend several
> days creating a animation on your A3000?

With a ray-tracer yes, this is why ray-tracing is hardly ever used in
a professional production environment; the cost in time is far too great
(even on systems that can do the job in a fraction of the time an A3000
can). Besides, once you start to really take advantage of reflection,
color, bump, and transparency maps and you stop fiddling around with
dozens of reflective chrome spheres, you begin to realize that ray-tracing
is not really necessary; scanline rendering can do a damn good job.

> I guess I am ready for a 68040! ;-)

Nah, i860. 80 Mflops @ 40Mhz. The new 25Mhz version is priced around $100.
Just might be time to put together that rendering accellerator I've been
thinking about. Anybody like the idea of writing support software?
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: faster 'puter
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 15:16:01 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Mark D. Manes writes:

>I have a Amiga 3000/25.  How long should it take to do a full trace
>picture with perhaps one transparent (nearly) glass?  Does 4.5 hours
>sound reasonable to you?

I did a crystal glass sitting on a wood table where the glass took up most of
the screen and showed the wood grain through it.  It took almost exactly 24
hours, one frame.  At that time I didn't know about upscaling objects.  The
rendering was impressive though.

>I guess I am ready for a 68040!

I'm anxious for the same thing, though for now I force myself to go to bed
starting a trace I know is going to take a while.  It's good for me.

>I just purchased VistaPro... what a neat program!

I've had it a while and I really like it but I haven't spent enough time with
it.  I just got DCTV and haven't even rendered a 24 bit VistaPro for that yet.
Just too much stuff going on.

Later,

John Rosner



##

Subject: mathtrans
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 91 20:02:48 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

I belive the mathtrans you are talking about (hi Udo) is intended to
use the ffp with programs that don't support it directly.  You can tell
which is which because the FFP version is about half the size of the C=
version.  I know there is a bug in it that surfaces under Distant Suns.
This is not very revelent because the FFP version of imagine is free.
Sorry to all of you with no accelerators but I don't know of any faster
libraries that use the stock hardware.

-R-              [e-mail]   Rob Borsari
                  Bourne to be wild



##

Subject: Memory for scanline vs trace
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 01:46:41 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

Why does scanline mode take _MUCH_ more memory than trace mode?  I have
an image of a bunch of spheres in a fully reflective room to achieve the
illusion of infinite spheres.  In scanline mode it runs out of memory and
crashes under 2.0 and runs my 5 Meg machine down to 100 K in 1.3.  However,
the memory is hardly touched in trace mode where all that reflection takes
place.  I don't understand.  Any ideas?

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])



##

Subject: Surface Master
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 03:16 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Duane Fields)

I am thinking of gettin Surface Master, but wanted some info on it.
What does it do exactly, and how? Does it let you pick from presets, or what?
Or does it just show you some pictures, and you adjust them?

Duane




##

Subject: Repeating brushmaps
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 04:35:53 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Has anyone used the repeating brushmaps I put on ab20 and hubcap? I'd like some
feedback before I make/upload more. You can get them via anonymous FTP
from ab20.larc.nasa.gov in /incoming/amiga/3d/Imagine/BRUSHMAPS or  at
hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug's cool site!) in /pub/amiga/incoming/3D/IMAGINE/
BRUSHMAPS.

Each brushmap has a long text file explaining how to use them.

An update: my animated waves are DONE! Now test rendering...


-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: FPU version included?
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 17:20:08 MET DST
From: [e-mail]

Hi!
Something went wrong with my earlier posting so I'll give it another try...

Is there a 68882 version included in the Imagine package, or is this
seperate? And how do upgrades work? Will Impulse tell me when I can upgrade,
and whats the pricerange of upgrades?


-- Henrik Harmsen     Internet: [e-mail]
-- ^- soon to become a proud owner of Imagine...

Oh... by the way, could someone explain to me the difference of trace
and scanline?


##

Subject: world size
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 10:50:28 GMT-0600
From: [e-mail] (Randy Carris)

I' heard conflicting stories on what the max. world size is.   Is 8000x8000x8000 the max.?
I want to decrease my render times, so increasing size to max. will speed things up ?

Also...
How do you map a brush on a ground object?  I want to map stone block brush onto the
ground in a repeating pattern, but the ground plane is on the XY plane and my efforts at
mapping seem to only work  on XZ.


One more thing...
A lot of people like myself seem to have questions about texture & brush mapping.  The
diagrams drawn in text editors are somewhat vague.  It would be a lot clearer if you could
set up the proper settings, such as the brush position in the attributes/brush/edit axis
screen, and use ScreenX to snapshot it.  These could be uploaded to ab20 or hubcap for
us to ftp.  Would this be too much trouble?

Randy



##

Subject: "The Imagine Companion"
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 14:49:10 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Now available!  The Imagine Companion is a book for all users of
Imagine.  It contains 180 pages of hints, tips, tutorials, and
illustrations, plus a disk!  Goes into much more detail than the
Impulse documentation.  It's currently available at HT
Electronics in Sunnyvale [phone].  Or send $29.95 (plus
$2.10 for California orders) to:

Motion Blur Publishing
915A Stambaugh Street
Redwood City, CA 94063




##

Subject: Re: FPU version included?
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 19:50:18 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

On Apr 13,  5:20pm, [e-mail] wrote:
} Subject: FPU version included?
}
} Is there a 68882 version included in the Imagine package, or is this
} seperate? And how do upgrades work? Will Impulse tell me when I can upgrade,
} and whats the pricerange of upgrades?

There are two versions that come with the Imagine disk, and you select
which one you want installed (actually, decompressed).  They are

Imagine      for those of us who are waiting to buy accelerators...and
Imagine.fp    for those who own 68020/881 or 68030/881 or 882 machines

You can chose either Integer or Floating Point (.fp) versions, or both.
A brief bit of history:  TurboSilver 3.0 came with BOTH versions, too.

}
} -- Henrik Harmsen     Internet: [e-mail]
} -- ^- soon to become a proud owner of Imagine...

It's well worth it.

}
} Oh... by the way, could someone explain to me the difference of trace
} and scanline?

Ray Tracing produces reflections and shadows.  ScanLine doesn't.  It is in
my experience that image quality does not change.  Can anyone argue that
point?  (other than the obvious "ray tracing" limits of scan line, that
is.)

}
}-- End of excerpt from [e-mail]

-ed

--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Re: FPU version included?
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 91 20:09:57 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

On Apr 13,  5:20pm, [e-mail] wrote:
} Subject: FPU version included?

I forgot a couple of answers...

}
} And how do upgrades work? Will Impulse tell me when I can upgrade,
} and whats the pricerange of upgrades?

>From TurboSilver, the upgrade cost was $150 to get Imagine.  From Imagine
1.0 to Imagine 1.1, all you needed to do was send in your 1.0 disk with a
postage paid mailer addressed back to you.  There was no upgrade fee (other
than the return shipping).

}
}-- End of excerpt from [e-mail]

You can contact Impulse directly for further details.
-ed


--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Trace mode bug in 1.1
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 91 21:47 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Duane Fields)

I believe I have found a bug in the trace mode of 1.1.
I was rendering a ship on the surface of a disturbed, reflective and filtered
ocean, with sandy bottom. Looks pretty cool in my scanline mode, but when
I go to TRACE mode, (so I can get my reflections) it does something really
strange.  It moves some of my objects around, and/or changes the position
of the camera!!! I know not why, I tried removing the ship, but with the
same results.  I have a 4meg machine, and while rendering it reports over
2megs free, so I don't think memory is the problem.  This is on a 3000/25.

Duane



##

Subject: Trace mode bug in 1.1
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 91 16:04:33 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

Duane Fields ([e-mail]) writes:

> I go to TRACE mode, (so I can get my reflections) it does something really
> strange.  It moves some of my objects around, and/or changes the position
> of the camera!!!

This sounds very familiar.  I believe the problem has something to do
with the world size: your objects are too big for the world.

Add a SIZE channel to the GLOBALS entry in the action script of the
stage editor.  Set the X,Y,Z to something large (I ususally go for
8000 on all three axes).

 ._.  Udo Schuermann        We only came for the oil and to test our
 ( )  [e-mail]    weapons.  Thank you very much!



##

Subject: TTDDD conversion program
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 91 18:51:08 mdt
From: Steven Lee Webb <[e-mail]>

                  Hello all of my fellow amiga animators!

I was wondering if anyone knew where to get the TTDDD conversion program and
information files.  I looked at the ab20 & hubcap ftp sites, and I couldn't
                                find them.

                               ADVthanksANCE
     _________
    /  ______/\
   /  /\_____\/  ------------------------------------------------------------
  /_____   /\    Never put off till tomorrow what you can avoid all together.
 _\____/  / /    ------------------------------------------------------------
/________/ /
\________\/teven Webb  Reply to: [e-mail]
           A Computer Science Major @ Colorado State University
            I have an amiga 500 with 5MEGS RAM, and a 50MEG HD.
                   [why are you looking at me so funny?]
                     (Yes, I HAVE voided my warranty!)



##

Subject: Am I not left brained enough?
Date: 15 Apr 91 12:04:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

Greetings...

I am still working with the Imagine detail editor.  I am still entirely
comfortable with it.  I having trouble rotating axis, I can rotate an
object just fine, but the axis seems to be something I can only get to
work every now and again.

Also, when does one get good enough so that they don't render ugly
pictures!?

Sigh... frustrated in 3d!

 -mark=

 +--------+   ==================================================
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "Mr. AmigaVision,  The 32 bit guy"
 | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
 |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================





##

Subject: Re: Surface Master
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 12:16:32 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Duane,
Surface Master is not hard to use.  I find it to be a time-saver.  It helps out
in two areas: ATTRIBUTES and TEXTURES.  If you create an object and want a
set of attributes, e.g., Ivory, all you do when editing the object's attributes
is load the Ivory ATTRIBUTE providedSurface Master.  TEXTURES are more
difficult,  to apply a brick texture to an object, load in the Surface Master
object and write down the texture settings, then load yours and apply them.

It also has a little manual that explains things more than the imagine docs.

Later,

John Rosner



##

Subject: Re: Left Brained?
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 12:24:52 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Mark D. Manes writes:

>I can rotate an object just fine, but the axis seems to be something I can
>only get to work every now and again.

Make sure you are in LOCAL mode and in doing ANY operation with axis instead of
the object select the operation with SHIFT.  SHIFT "R" to rotate and be in
local mode.

>Also, when does one get good enough so that they don't render ugly pictures!?

Practice with a simple object (to cut down trace time) over and over and over.
Varying lighting & color etc.  This will allow you to get the effect you want
which is only a technical problem.

Since you recognize what ugly is then you should be able to avoid or correct it.

Later,

John Rosner



##

Subject: pixel aspect
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 12:52:35 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

How do I figgure out the pixel aspect for a certain resolution display.
 I am rendering a picture to be displayed on a macII at 1024x768.
Does anyone know the formula or is it device dependent? thanks  -R-




##

Subject: Re: Trace mode bug....
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 11:04 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Duane Fields)

The suggestion with the world size proved to be correct, enlarging it
fixed the problem right up! Thanks.... Now, no one has responded to my plea
for info on how one uses Surface Master, is it hard to use?

Duane



##

Subject: Re: pixel aspect
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 14:56:23 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> How do I figgure out the pixel aspect for a certain resolution display.
>  I am rendering a picture to be displayed on a macII at 1024x768.
> Does anyone know the formula or is it device dependent? thanks  -R-

Pixel aspect ratio depends both on the aspect ratio of the display device
(your monitor) and the resolution that fits onto that screen. Most monitors
use a 4 x 3 aspect ratio so that to achieve square 1:1 pixels, the resolution
must also be 4:3. 1024 x 768 will achieve this as well as 640 x 480. The
Amiga typically uses a non-square aspect ratio of about 1.2:1 such as
320 x 200, 640 x 400, 768 x 480, etc. So the pixel ratio can be found using...
(horiz resolution/horiz display size):(vert resolution/vert display size)
If your monitor has a 4:3 aspect, you should have 1:1 pixels.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



##

Subject: Repeating Brushmaps...
Date:    Mon, 15 Apr 91 17:09 EDT
From: "Doug Bischoff" <[e-mail]>

     Well, repeating brushmaps are a cool idea.  Kinda like tileing.  Well,
almost.  Tell me if I"m doing something wrong, but it appears to me that the
tiling is only in 1 dimension.  In other words, I put down a brushmap on the
ground, and told it to repeat and mirror (wasn't sure what mirror did, but
the V1.1 file said to try it!) and what I got was:

     The ground, with my picture mapped onto it repeating along the X axis (I
think...) thereby forming a stripe across the ground.  Looked neat, but not
what I'd wanted.  I wanted the brush to tile like a checkerboard... the map
repeating itself every time from the left to the right of the picture AND from
the top to the bottom of the picture.
     Am I doing something wrong?

     Also: when you use a brush map for color... do you want dithering all the
way on, or all the way off?  I forget!  And is there any particular format that
Imagine prefers?  Ham?  32 Color?  EHB?  24 bit 1000 x 1000?  Thanks!

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug  Bischoff- |    *** ***    ====--\         | "I'm not God...  |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- |   *  ***  *     ==|<>\___     |    I was just    |
| -The Black Ring- |    *** ***        |______\    |       misquoted!"|
| --- "Wheels" --- |      ***           O   O      |   -Dave Lister   |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe |     T.R.I.     -------------  |    RED DWARF     |
\---- [e-mail]  D.BISCHOFF on GEnie  THIRDMAN on PAN -----/



##

Subject: Pseudo-AnimBrush mapping.
Date:    Mon, 15 Apr 91 17:16 EDT
From: "Doug Bischoff" <[e-mail]>

     I'm happy to say that the fake anim-brush mapping that Impulse has put
in V1.1 works very well, and (in my opinion) is even more handy than a tru
anim-brush ala DPaint III.
     One neat feature that caught me off-guard and wasted an evening's render-
time, is the fact that if you have a 40 frame animation, and tell it to use
pictures 1 through 50, it'll use some algorythm to pick pictures 1 through
50.  I thought it would use just the first 40, but no: it tried to use all
of them by skipping one now and then.  Wouldn't have been a problem if I'd
not tried to map an animation onto itself ten frames behind the actual
position in the animation!  :-)  Imagine choked when in frame 46 it needed
pic.0046 that hadn't been rendered yet!
     Still running out of hard disk space!

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug  Bischoff- |    *** ***    ====--\         | "I'm not God...  |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- |   *  ***  *     ==|<>\___     |    I was just    |
| -The Black Ring- |    *** ***        |______\    |       misquoted!"|
| --- "Wheels" --- |      ***           O   O      |   -Dave Lister   |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe |     T.R.I.     -------------  |    RED DWARF     |
\---- [e-mail]  D.BISCHOFF on GEnie  THIRDMAN on PAN -----/



##

Subject: Re: Surface Master
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 17:23:58 EST
From: John J. Rosner <[e-mail]>

Duane Fields writes:

>So is surface Master just a bunch of Attribs?

No.  Sorry I only gave its most useful aspect as one would apply it.  It
comes with an icon oriented executable put together with The Director.
When executed it displays a matrix of choices.  These have things like
TRANSPARENCY (I think thats what it's called), WOODS, etc.

Click on wood and another matrix comes up with woods labeled Oak, Tulip,
Ash, etc.  What your seeing in this second matrix is the actual objects that
were rendered using certain settings.  There are metals, and all kinds of
other materials.

Click on transparency and a matrix of objects (all objects are spheres or
cubes) comes up showing what different refractive values do to transparent
spheres.

So, there are three main parts:
1 - SurfaceMaster executable that allows viewing of all rendered surfaces.
2 - The Objects from which the surfaces were rendered.
3 - The Attributes used and these may be loaded using Imagine's load
requestor in the attributes window.

These are the major parts as I view them.

P.S.  All objects have been rendered in low res which is good enough and I
assume has been done to get everything on one diskette.  I re-rendered the
woods to DCTV and they were quite beautiful, with added detail that one
would expect.  That is, in low res Walnut appears kind of dotted but on
DCTV the dots turn into grain.

Later,

John Rosner




##

Subject: Corrosion
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 21:44:22 cdt
From: Matthew Feifarek <[e-mail]>

        I have found a neat way to make corrosion on imagine.  I saw a
renderman picture of a teapot (what else?) that looked like it was made out
of old, rusty wiring.  I duplicated it pretty well with Imagine with a
combination of bumpmapping and transparency mapping. Here's what to do:

1. Go into Dpaint III; hires-interlaced; grey scale palette
2. Pick a brush from the top of the toolbox... the second to largest round
        one should work well.
3. Draw a big angled mess with white on the screen.  Try to leave lots of
        relatively large holes (quarter sized or so)
4. grab the screen or the portion of it that you scribbled on as a brush
5. pick the next grey closer to black from white... press 'o' to outline your
        brush.  Pick next grey, 'o' etc... until at last grey before black.
        This is why you want to leave some holes... so the outlining will not
        seal off all of the "hollow" areas.
6. you should now have a wiry-mess brush with VERY soft edges.  This is your
        bump-map (altitute map in Impulse's non-standard lingo )
7. save into your materials/bitmaps directory or wherever as corrode.bump
        or something
8. open palette swap color 0 and color 1 (black and white).  exit palette,
        press F2 for color mode, your brush should be black with white holes.
        reduce the screen format to two colors, save brush as corrode.filt.
9. exit DPIII; open Imagine
10. make your object ( this example a sphere... you therefore may wish to
        change the wrapping params for planes etc. ) and open it's attributes
11. choose a color that you think is rust... not to hard or specualar... rusty
        metal isn't shiny.  MAKE SURE "SHINYNESS" is off... this causes a bug
        that apparently disables ANY trasparency (fixed in 1.1????)
12. brush 1: corrode.bump;  wrapX,Z ( this is up to you... but both images
        MUST have the same exact mapping coords/params etc. )
13. brush 2: corrode.filt; wrapX,Z ( or same as what you put for other image)
14. Save object and let her rip!

What happens is:
        The bump map makes indentations with reversed plateaus into the object,
and the filter map makes those plateaus transparent.  The objects axis should
probably be reduced to tone down the indentation causedthe bump map...
experiment here.  Color mapping can be played with of course... if you don't
want rust, use a color map, or use a procedural "Texture" map... a wooden
sphere with holes carved out of it would be neat!

        This is just another example of how texture/brush mapping can fake
what would normally be an incredibly huge object that would be inconceivable
to try and model.  Experiment away!

Tell me of any neat variations, or improvements you find!!

        -Matt Feifarek

        [e-mail]

    { I'm sending this from elsewhere because my picard account is
      having trouble with mail at the moment... address any correspondence
      to mattf@picard please   }




##

Subject: Cycle-editor?
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 8:34:40 CDT
From: Michael P Callahan <[e-mail]>

I have recently constructed a couple of human type characters and would like
some advice on how best to put them into the cycle editor for animation.
The Characters exist now as separate parts arms heads legs etc. Should I
group them in the detail editor first or assign them in the cycle editor?

When I tried to put them into the cycle editor I had problems with scaling,
is there a way to control the size of the diamond things(forgot name)so that
everything is scaled 1 to 1 ie like I made them.??????

Confused as usual-mccube

Thanks

ps This list is the best thing for learning a program ever !



##

Subject: Buddy System for Imagine...
Date: 16 Apr 91 09:35:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

I just got purchased what I hope to be a excellent program.  I have not
had a chance to install it yet.  The program?  The Buddy System for
Imagine.  If you are not familiar with "The Buddy System" family of
products, then you may want to become familiar.  I have seen this
product for Deluxe Paint III and it was excellent.  I am hoping that
the Imagine offering is just as good.

I will let you guys & gals know more after I get it installed.

I purchased Vista Pro.  It is a interesting program.  However, I guess
I need to work with it more.  I get images that look dark and actually
look better with the deinterlacer in my A3000 turned off.  I have not
yet created a good looking animation.  Has anyone used Vista Pro yet?
And if so, what did you think about it?

I want to thank all of you who have sent me mail on the 'not enough
puter' thread.  I intend to work with Imagine again this weekend and
attempt to create something very nice.  I am going to try to build
a starship enterprise (the old one) object.

Now that I think about it.. why can't we all compile a set of objects
and place them on disks.  I would happily pay for a set of objects
for Imagine.  In my opinion, one of the greatest weakneses has is that
it does not come with any objects!   LightWave 3d comes with some
very nice objects, we ought to put these objects together.  Perhaps
I could undertake this task?

 -mark=

 +--------+   ==================================================
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "Mr. AmigaVision,  The 32 bit guy"
 | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
 |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================





##

Subject: Cycle editor
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 10:17:24 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Mike Callahan has been having cycle problems:

>I have recently constructed a couple of human type characters and would like
>some advice on how best to put them into the cycle editor for animation.
>The Characters exist now as separate parts arms heads legs etc. Should I
>group them in the detail editor first or assign them in the cycle editor?

>When I tried to put them into the cycle editor I had problems with scaling,
>is there a way to control the size of the diamond things(forgot name)so that
>everything is scaled 1 to 1 ie like I made them.??????

Excellent question. The new version of Imagine (1.1) has a brand new
spiffy cycle-object-assembler built into the detail editor. I made
one object to see how it was done, and it was MUCH easier than trying
to assemble parts in the Cycle editor. The 1 to 1 scaling is impossible
the old way!

Look at the 1.1 readme, Mike Halvorson wrote four paragraphs or so on
how to use POSE in the Detail editor. This is exactly what you're looking
for.

>ps This list is the best thing for learning a program ever !

Thanks!

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: Repeating Brushmaps
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 10:36:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Doug Bischdorf asks:

>Tell me if I"m doing something wrong, but it appears to me that the
>tiling is only in 1 dimension.  In other words, I put down a brushmap on the
>ground, and told it to repeat and mirror (wasn't sure what mirror did, but
>the V1.1 file said to try it!) and what I got was:

>     The ground, with my picture mapped onto it repeating along the X axis (I
>think...) thereby forming a stripe across the ground.  Looked neat, but not
>what I'd wanted.  I wanted the brush to tile like a checkerboard... the map
>repeating itself every time from the left to the right of the picture AND from
>the top to the bottom of the picture.
>     Am I doing something wrong?

No, you're not. This is very strange.. should work beautifully. Are you
using "wrap" or "flat"?

"Mirror" will make the repeating tiles mirror themselves at each tile so
that the boundries have continuous colors. This is useful in trying to hide
where the tiles merge.

>     Also: when you use a brush map for color... do you want dithering all the
>way on, or all the way off?  And is there any particular format that
>Imagine prefers?  Ham?  32 Color?  EHB?  24 bit 1000 x 1000?  Thanks!

Dither on will produce the best color representation of your brush map
I think even with a 24-bit display you want it on.

The best is a 24-bit image, of course. Anything works, but the color
range of a 24-bit will beat the tar out of a 16 color any day. Exceptions
would be objects with a few discrete colors, like a red, white, and blue
flag. Then a 24-bit and a 4 color image are equal in quality. Note that
Imagine converts them all to 24-bit internally, though- the memory goes
down equally for a 100 by 100 4-color as it does for a 100 by 100 24-bit.

My favorate trick to make/edit a 24-bit picture is to use The Art Department
to scale whatever I want to change to about 1000 by 1000, then save a dithered
EHB picture. I edit it in DPaint III, then shrink the final brush to maybe
1/10 or 1/5 the enlarged size. It works extremely well! I posted some of the
brushes I've made to hubcap and ab20. Has anyone used them?

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: Re: Objects
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 08:03:37 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ed Chadez)

On Apr 16, 10:57am, [e-mail] wrote:
} Subject: Objects
}
} Mark Manes writes:
}
} >I intend to work with Imagine again this weekend and
} >attempt to create something very nice.  I am going to try to build
} >a starship enterprise (the old one) object.
}
} I've seen "deck plans" for the Enterprise in book stores. These would be
} ideal for using as a basis- they would be in the right proportions and
} you'd have a very detailed final product. All of the "Wings of War" planes
} from Impulse were done from blueprints.

Which Enterprise?  NCC-1701 or NCC-1701-D.  I've seen the original one, but
I haven't seen the newer one.  I'd actually like to create a really
detailed Enterprise (D, that is) along with some other trek-genre objects.

}
}-- End of excerpt from [e-mail]

-ed

--
--//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                    CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Objects
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 10:57:03 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Mark Manes writes:

>I intend to work with Imagine again this weekend and
>attempt to create something very nice.  I am going to try to build
>a starship enterprise (the old one) object.

I've seen "deck plans" for the Enterprise in book stores. These would be
ideal for using as a basis- they would be in the right proportions and
you'd have a very detailed final product. All of the "Wings of War" planes
from Impulse were done from blueprints.

>Now that I think about it.. why can't we all compile a set of objects
>and place them on disks.  I would happily pay for a set of objects
>for Imagine.  In my opinion, one of the greatest weakneses has is that
>it does not come with any objects!   LightWave 3d comes with some
>very nice objects, we ought to put these objects together.  Perhaps
>I could undertake this task?

You're too late, Mark. I did this months ago. :-) I put these objects
in some disk archives and posted them to ab20.larc.nasa.gov and
they can also be found at hubcap.clemson.edu. I also put some
brushmaps and other Imagine goodies I created there.

If you don't have FTP access, well, you're scrod. Tell you what: if anyone
wants about 8 disks of Imagine objects, projects, brushmaps, pictures,
and a complete archive of this list, E-mail me personally. If there are more
than about 4 of you out there, I'll set up some "distribution disks" and use
US Snail to send them to people for maybe $20 to cover the disk costs and
postage.

I agree that the Lightwave objects are fantastic! I don't know what
object editor they used to create them, though. They didn't use Lightwave
or Imagine...  maybe SA/4D??

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: DCTV anim files
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 12:46:45 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

In a message From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)


>Now, on to ANIM files.  I am not able to display full resolution DCTV
>pic ANIMs.  Bummer.  I talked to Digital Creations about this, and they
>recommended I try 704x480.  I did, and it worked just fine.  Using the
>PD program ANIMBuild, I can string 704x480 DCTV pics together into an
>ANIM that plays pretty well using ShowANIM from the same package.

I don't personally have DCTV, but I have worked with a friend who does.
She had problems displaying overscan images, and the problem was her
preferences setting for the screen position.  It is neccessary that the
DCTV specific codes at the top and left of the image be sent out the
video signal.  With a shift to the left or up, these codes are shifted
out of the video "window" and DCTV cannot see them.  This is probably why
the 704 width works:  because the info is closer to the center of the screen
and can therefore be seen by DCTV.  As a suggestion for this problem and
the one below, I would recommend SuperView 3.1 by David Grothe.  It still
has minimal problems with non-laced DCTV images (he's working on that)
but it will allow you to specify a new position for an image (or anim).
You can do this on the command line, but for convenience you can specify
this position in the comment for that file and it will automatically be
positioned to this location.  SV 3.1 also seems to have great success
accomplishing the 30 fps rate (be aware that no program can decode at that
rate if the area of change is too large on a non-accelerated machine, I
have a 28Mhz '030 and have never had that problem with SV 3.1 though)
even on un-accellerated machines.  You can get SV 3.1 on ab20.  Give it
a try.

>However, it does not always keep up with a full 30 fps (+2 modifier).  When
>there is a large differential, it lags.  I would be interested in hearing
>of any package, PD or otherwise, which will do a solid 30 fps or better on
>an appropriately accellerated AMiga.


>Coming soon - Benchmarking the Mega-Midget Racer with Imagine!

I have the GVP A3001 on a 2000.  I have tested it with AIBBV3 and would
be interested in comparing it with the Mega-Midget Racer for my friends
considering accellerators.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])




##

Subject: Imagine on DCTV
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 9:24:07 PDT
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)

        Imagine Settings for DCTV pics and ANIMs

I have been playing with various aspect ratios and other settings, to try
and get the best DCTV images I can get out of Imagine.  As near as I can
figure, DCTV expects the same pixel aspect ratio as a low-rez picture -
6x7.  This makes sense, given that it is actually grabbing a 3 or 4 bit
plane picture, and using the information therein to put 24 bit planes on
the screen of a composite monitor.

To get an effective 6x7 pixel aspect ratio on a HIRES picture, you need to
tell Imagine to use 3x7.  To get 6x7 on a LACE picture, you need to tell
Imagine to use 12x7.  For a HIRES LACE picture, the effects cancel each
other out, and you can just use 6x7.  Here are some lines you can add to
your IMAGINE.CONFIG for DCTV:

PSET    Lores DCTV,368,241,6,7,                #  preset
PSET    Hires DCTV,736,241,3,7,HIRES            #  preset
PSET    Lores Laced DCTV,368,482,12,7,LACE        #  preset
PSET    Hires Laced DCTV,736,482,6,7,HIRES|LACE        #  preset

All of the above settings use overscan to get the largest possible image
on-screen.  If your composite monitor does not show this many lines, you
may want to reduce these values.  Also, Imagine does not seem to allow
you to specify the output file format in a PSET, so you will need to
click on 24-bit ILBM for your DCTV-bound renderings.

A word of caution - I am using a composite monitor (Commodore 1702) which
seems to have the same proportions as the RGB monitor (Atari SC1224) I use
on my Amiga.  If you are using something with a different pixel aspect
ratio, you will need to tweak the numbers to suit.  However, these should
be the right settings for the Commodore 1084 and 1084S.

Now, on to ANIM files.  I am not able to display full resolution DCTV
pic ANIMs.  Bummer.  I talked to Digital Creations about this, and they
recommended I try 704x480.  I did, and it worked just fine.  Using the
PD program ANIMBuild, I can string 704x480 DCTV pics together into an
ANIM that plays pretty well using ShowANIM from the same package.

However, it does not always keep up with a full 30 fps (+2 modifier).  When
there is a large differential, it lags.  I would be interested in hearing
of any package, PD or otherwise, which will do a solid 30 fps or better on
an appropriately accellerated AMiga.

If you are rendering for animation, I recommend using a PSET optimized
for the purpose.  In fact, if you are not rendering a final version of
an animation, you may want to render in a lower resolution - Imagine speeds
up a LOT with fewer scanlines to process!  Below are some settings I use
for ANIM-making:

PSET    DCTV for final ANIM,704,480,6,7,HIRES|LACE    #  preset
PSET    DCTV for test ANIM,340,230,6,7            #  preset

Imagine will trace a picture using the second setting more than 3 times
as fast as it will trace a picture using the first setting. The loss in
resolution is not really all that bad, and is well worth it for all but
final traces.

This is the command line I use to convert a file to DCTV format:

    ifftodctv <file> -w704 -h480 -d4

Note that this will work even if the picture you rendered is smaller than
704x480.  It is important to specify the output resolution - if you don't,
it defaults to 736x482, which doesn't want to animate!

It is not neccessary to specify the number of bit-planes as I have, but I
try not to depend on defaults for critical parameters.  I did do some
experimenting with 3 bit-plane DCTV pics as well.  My conclusion: if you
are willing to put up with a loss in resolution, trace in a lower rez
mode and save lots of time, instead.

Disclaimer - I am no expert on the topics discussed.  If you see anywhere
I am in error, or have anything to add, please go for it!  If I help one
person scale the learning wall just a little bit faster, it was worth it.

Coming soon - Benchmarking the Mega-Midget Racer with Imagine!

John T. Grieggs (Telos @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory)
4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, Ca. 91109 M/S 301-320T    [phone]
Uucp: {cit-vax,elroy,chas2}!jpl-devvax!grieggs
Arpa: ...jpl-devvax![e-mail]



##

Subject: Objects
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 17:51:37 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

rutgers!athena.mit.edu!spworley writes:

> You're too late, Mark. I did this months ago. :-) I put these objects
> in some disk archives and posted them to ab20.larc.nasa.gov and
> they can also be found at hubcap.clemson.edu. I also put some
> brushmaps and other Imagine goodies I created there.

Now that someone is rearranging ab20, it seems you can't find
anything anymore!  I tried to cd to /incoming/amiga/3d/imagine and
was told there was no such directory.  Is it not there or is there
upper/lower case in the path??

I would like to get some of those items you mention but alas..I'm
having difficulty finding anything anymore.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878



##

Subject: Re: Objects
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 21:21:04 -0400
From: [e-mail] (J. Norell Guttman)

>
>rutgers!athena.mit.edu!spworley writes:
>
>> You're too late, Mark. I did this months ago. :-) I put these objects
>> in some disk archives and posted them to ab20.larc.nasa.gov and
>> they can also be found at hubcap.clemson.edu. I also put some
>> brushmaps and other Imagine goodies I created there.
>
>Now that someone is rearranging ab20, it seems you can't find
>anything anymore!  I tried to cd to /incoming/amiga/3d/imagine and
>was told there was no such directory.  Is it not there or is there
>upper/lower case in the path??
>
>I would like to get some of those items you mention but alas..I'm
>having difficulty finding anything anymore.
>
  I was told that abcfd20 has only 180 meg or something to that affect
and that it had become full... those files just were too big or something
because a lot just was deleted.


> ============================================================================
>  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
>      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
>    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
>    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878
>
>
                        J.Norell Guttman
                        [e-mail]


--
================================================================================
Ugh....                                    //
    My .sig file has been crusheda 1600 lbs. Case chic!!!   \\ //
    It will soon be fixed!                    Only \X/ Amiga


##

Subject: Amiga 1000 - Imagine 1.1 Camo Fix
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 21:33:33 -0700
From: [e-mail] ( James McInnis)

 Opps! Lets try that again!

   I was having trouble with the new 1.1 Camo texture on
my Amiga 1000. I called Impulse and was told to send the
disk back, which I did. I just received the upgrade yesterday
(slightly 1 week after mailing it) and now Camo works on the
1000. It has grown slightly in size to 3596 bytes. No other updates
to Imagine that I could tell.

   I just wanted to pass the word along to any other poor 1000/Imagine
owners out there! Thanks Impulse for the quick response.

   And to Steve Worley, I've tried your rose trellis and it works great.
Now I've got to try the sidewalk brush!

Jim




##

Subject: Enterprise Object
Date:    Tue, 16 Apr 91 21:51 EDT
From: "Doug Bischoff" <[e-mail]>

     I have an Enterprise Object (NCC-1701) (The original) that if anybody
wants to give me a brief tutorial on how to upload objects, I'll upload to
ab20.  (Might take awhile, tho.)
     It's as detailed as I can make it given a ruler and the blueprints!

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug  Bischoff- |    *** ***    ====--\         | "I'm not God...  |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- |   *  ***  *     ==|<>\___     |    I was just    |
| -The Black Ring- |    *** ***        |______\    |       misquoted!"|
| --- "Wheels" --- |      ***           O   O      |   -Dave Lister   |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe |     T.R.I.     -------------  |    RED DWARF     |
\---- [e-mail]  D.BISCHOFF on GEnie  THIRDMAN on PAN -----/



##

Subject: Potential user of imagine...
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 22:02 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Hello, all!

I am in the process of making some major purchases for my new A2000.

I am purchasing (starting tomorrow with a COD package of item #6 listed below):

1) 68040 accelerator
2) 150 meg hardrive
3) 10 more megs of Ram (making it a total of unlucky 13)
4) 2.0 Rom
5) 2.0 Workbench (when it comes out for A2000)
6) VistaPro (3 meg)
7) SuperAgnus chip (if I can find it, otherwise fatter will have to do)

*and*

8) something in the way of imagine software

I've been subbed to this list for about 2 weeks now, and have been impressed
by what I have been reading.

I know nothing about the software (other than what I've read).  Which is the
best to get?  Is there only one software for imagine?  Or a variety?  If you
don't want to spend the time in answering, please send a number/address of where
I can get more info *or* even order it.

Thanks...
                                        - [e-mail]


##

Subject: Converted Object Problems
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 23:11:10 PDT
From: Christopher Seguine <[e-mail]>

 I'm probably over looking something but.....
 I create an object in Sculpt (much better interface) then I
 interchange it over to Silver format...Load it into the Detail Editor
 ...add atributes... then load it onto the stage.... BUT! As soon as I
 track the camera to it and exit the action menu the object vanishes and
 the only thing left is an axis..... Whats the Deal?

 Thanx!

  Christopher



##

Subject: Re: Enterprise Object
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 01:01:20 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

I don't have a lot of time, but if you don't get some instructions on uploading
to ab20, let me know and I'll help you out.  I'm very interested in your
Enterprise Imagine object :-)

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])



##

Subject: Buddy System & Other Stuff
Date: 17 Apr 91 09:41:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

Greetings 3ders!

I told you that I would give a review on the Buddy System for Imagine.
In a word... neat.  If you would like to have online help as well as
visual demonstrations on how to user Imagine this is the program for
you!  The program runs as a seperate process and will provide online
textual help, visual demonstrations, and even uses the internal amiga
voice for the demonstration.

Installation is rather simple.  The package includes two disks
(which are full!) you simply open the drawer that contains Imagine
and drag the first disks drawer into that directory, then you open
the buddysystem drawer (which you just copied) on the hard disk and
drag the lessons drawer that is on your second disk into this directory.
Then all that remains to be done is a minior modification of the tooltypes
of the BSI program, and your done!

To get into the Buddy System you simply click on the BSI icon.  It will
load itself and Imagine.  If you want the visual demonstrations you must
use the hi resolution non-interlaced display.  I guess to
conserve memory.   Pressing the right menu reveals the online help drop
down menu.  Selecting a topic area reveals a hypertext type help display.
This text display gives a nice description of the different areas within
Imagine.  You can now hit the right mouse button and a requestor opens
with a list of topics, visisual demonstrations, etc.

The program requires that you have at least 1.5 megabytes of memory.
Further, you must have a accelerated machine if you wish to have the
amiga speech.  It is best run from a hard disk as you might imagine.
(pun intended!).

In brief, if you want to have context sensitive help and a visiual
tutorial for Imagine, get the Buddy System for Imagine.  It is the
best $40 I have spent in a while.

------------------

Other thoughts:

Object Disks
------------
 I would like to see the disks organized in a reasonable way.
Like Space Objects, Household Objects, etc. etc.  FTPing these
things take time, money and often times it can be a frustrating experience.
I would like to see object disks set up in a way where they
could simply be called in -- with the proper attributes set,
in a easy to use format.

I do think that a collection of objects would be a great benefit to
all Imagine owners.  I also think that these objects should be
distributed as inexpensively as possible.   Distributing public
domain should not cost over $10 in my opinion.  I would have no
problem in paying more if the inventor of the object got some
coins for his efforts.   I guess I would love to see a effort
similiar to the Fred Fish collection of PD.  The more objects
the merrier if you ask me.

VistaPro
--------
Is there anyone using VistaPro for anything intersting?  I was
initally excited about this product.  However, most of the pictures
that I have created so far, while interesting, they were certainly
not breathtaking.  I am curious as to whether anyone has spent the
time necessary to become proficient at animating in VistaPro.

 -mark=

 +--------+   ==================================================
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "Mr. AmigaVision,  The 32 bit guy"
 | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
 |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================





##

Subject:Surface Master (& 040)
From: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1991 15:44:24 EST

        Good day eh! I finally got to try out Surface Master the other day and
I was definitely impressed. I couldn't imagine trying to figure out all those
textures by myself. I barely have any time to set up a neat picture as it is.
If you are like me and have a hard time trying to figure out Attributes and
Textures then you need Surface Master. I believe there was a previous posting
on how exactly to get it. I don't have the info with me right now.
        Also, just out of sheer curiosity, has anyone out there seen Imagine
running on an 040. If so, how many times faster is it than a 50 MHz 030 or a
stock 68000. I've only got two more days on this mailing list and then I'm
history (by no choice of my own, school's out, party on!).
                                                      Later dudes,
                                                                 D&J Autobody



##

Subject: Surface Master
Date: 17 Apr 91 16:21:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

Greetings,

I would like the mailing address of the fella that makes Surface Master?

 -mark=

 +--------+   ==================================================
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "Mr. AmigaVision,  The 32 bit guy"
 | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
 |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================





##

Subject: 1.1 Bug!
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 91 10:26:02 CDT
From: [e-mail]  (Thomas E. Simth)

Hey dudes,
   A friend and I were working on making an ocean scene with a boat on it with Imagine 1.1. So we made a box that used the Glass attributes from our imagine group a while ago. Then we changed the refraction and added the disturb texture to make it look like water with waves and added the boat on top.

   Ok, here's the tricky part. We were looking at it up close using scan mode.
It turned out a little odd looking, so we wanted to see if rendering it in trace mode would clear up some problems, so all we changed was scanline to trace. When the picture came up the view point mysteriously moved way back. We looked at each other and said Huh???!! We tried fiddleing with it but could not get rid of the bug. Does anyone have any insight to this?

                                Tom



##

Subject: The "State of 3-D Art" in Amiga World
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 19:54:06 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

The May issue of Amiga World has an article comparing Imagine, 3D
Professional, LightWave 3D amd Animation: Journeyman.  The author uses
a simple simple scene (a green glass cylinder, a chrome ball, a chalk
cube and a small checker board) to compare the four programs.  I would
like to try this scene out on a PD raytracer I have.  Does anyone know
where I can find the actual scene description used in the article?  Is
the author (or the magazine) on the net?  Although the scene is
described somewhat in the sidebar, and I could guess at the various
attributes, I want to be fair and start with something as close to the
original as possible.  I can read NFF, OFF, Sculpt4D, and rayscene (the
raytracer I want to try) object files.  Thanks in advance.

Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds


##

Subject: ROBOCOP imagine object in amigaworld
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 21:19:16 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug)

On net news it was mentioned that the ROBOCOP image in amigaworld
is on BIX. Could someone who has it upload it to hub? Please?

If its already avaiable ftp, please let me know where.

    -Doug